Japanese Silver Bowl

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capt-zero

Hero Member
Jul 28, 2012
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Hi, this is my first post here and I was hoping I could get some help about an item I found at a yard sale yesterday. First I'll tell what I know about it. It's a shallow silver bowl 5cm high by 16cm in diameter (pictures below). The total weight is 333.1 grams. Inside the bowl is a crest I wasn't able to get good contrast on in the pictures, but it is in gold leaf and is a "go-shichi-no- kiri", the official seal of the prime minister of Japan. When I first picked it up I expected to find the Meiji 'gun jin' mark, but instead found the Kanji script seen in the picture below. There are no other marks on the bowl. I am hoping someone here can translate it for me. I'm starting to believe it dates from the Edo period (hence the lack of a silver mark). I also ran across a reference that suggested the shape of the bowl had a religious significance. Any information I can get would be greatly appreciated.

Thanx,
capt-zero

DSCN0663_v1.JPG DSCN0666_v1.JPG DSCN0664_v1.JPG
 

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capt-zero

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Jul 28, 2012
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I hate replying to my own thread, but I can't believe how much trouble I'm having trying to get that Kanji script translated. One would think the Japanese language is a government secret or something. Does anyone here know of a good source for oriental translations is? If it was a western toungue there'd be no problem. I could just type it in.
Thanks,
capt-zero
 

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FormerTeller

FormerTeller

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Apr 24, 2011
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I asked my wife if she could read anything. She's from China, but Chinese and Japanese written language is very similar. She said the writing is difficult to read, almost archaic, but was able to make out the symbols for "cloud" and "high". Here's a couple of websites (translated) of what appears to be the same bowl; at any rate, it's the same writing.

Google Translate

Google Translate

She really got into researching this thing :laughing7:

The bad news is that the bowl appears to have been made in the 20th century. The good news is that according to the website above, one of these bowls either sold or listed for 19,000 yen, or $2,139.00 (that may be a buy-it-now price).

Hope that helps. Good luck!
 

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capt-zero

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Jul 28, 2012
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FormerTeller,

Thanks muchly for your help. I had just about given up hope on any kinds of leads on this bowl at all. I've been roundly snubbed by every University I've attempted to contact concerning this. I was just about ready to start contacting Japanese sites at random. Concerning that price you listed, actually there is a botton you can click at the bottom and give a little better translation of what's going on on the page. It is an auction with the starting price at $1000, but it's up to $2139 now. The bowl I picked up is a little different, in that it has the Paulowinia flower instead of the chrysanthemum(?) on it. However, the inscription on the bottom of each of the links is exactly the same as mine. It's looking like the best 25 cents I've ever spent. Now I have the inscription in English, it should be a little easier to track down. Once again, thank you and your wife very much for your assistance.

thanx,
capt-zero
 

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capt-zero

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Jul 28, 2012
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Opps. Accidently double posted. My bad.
 

diggummup

diggummup

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capt-zero

Hero Member
Jul 28, 2012
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FormerTeller and diggumup,

I appreciate both of your assistances in this, but the mystery thickens. The anglisized version of the inscription (KING YUE UNSAI GIL)is now proving almost as difficult to track down as the Kanji version. FormerTeller, your wife was correct in identifying 'cloud' and 'high', but the rest, so far, remains a mystery (by the way if your wife could me which of the symbols stands for that, it would help). I haven't been this obsessed with something in a long time. I remember finding a couple of old engravings that I spent hundreds of hours researching and still don't know the answer I was searching for. I guess this may turn out the same. At least it keeps me off the streets. Does anyone else here get obsessed with particular minutia like this once in a while? Sometimes I find the research more interesting than the find.

thanx,
capt-zero
 

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geak

Tenderfoot
Feb 3, 2010
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Looks like the first four kanji characters is a person's name. The first two is commonly read as Yoshitake. The next two could be read as Souun, Shuuun, or Sougumo. The final character relates to religious purification. Hope this helps.
 

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capt-zero

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Jul 28, 2012
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geak,

This is the first you've responded to this thread. Do you have a Japanese background. Could you be a bit more specific, such as the English meaning of the words you mentioned? I had heard in a description in an auction listing that the shape has a certain religious significance, but that's all that was said. Interesting, the melding of religion and politics with the use of the paulowinia flower. Although, two hundred years ago there wasn't much difference between the two in Japan.

capt-zero
 

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geak

Tenderfoot
Feb 3, 2010
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Just an American living in Japan utilizing the net to figure out what those Kanji's mean.

First kanji means good fortune; good luck; auspiciousness
Second refers to peak; mountain
Third means sect; center; pillar; principle
Fourth is cloud
Fifth means religious purification.

Not sure what the item is used for.... possibly drinking sake (rice wine) during some sort of religious ceremony? Or maybe just used for decoration.
 

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capt-zero

Hero Member
Jul 28, 2012
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diggumup and geak,

I believe that it's now been identified. Thanks very much. I searched the word sakazuki cup and got page after page of almost identical images. At first I was sceptical, as the cup is so large; but then I stumbled across one three or four times the size of mine. One last question that will be based on pure speculation is, what might be the signifigance of the Paulowinia flower or "Go-Shichi-No-Kiri" symbol in the base of the bowl be? It usually refers to the office of the prime minister, but it well may have other significance. Anyway thanks a bunch for your help on this, I really appreciate it.

thanx,
capt-zero
 

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geak

Tenderfoot
Feb 3, 2010
9
1
Primary Interest:
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capt-zero said:
FormerTeller,

Thanks muchly for your help. I had just about given up hope on any kinds of leads on this bowl at all. I've been roundly snubbed by every University I've attempted to contact concerning this. I was just about ready to start contacting Japanese sites at random. Concerning that price you listed, actually there is a botton you can click at the bottom and give a little better translation of what's going on on the page. It is an auction with the starting price at $1000, but it's up to $2139 now. The bowl I picked up is a little different, in that it has the Paulowinia flower instead of the chrysanthemum(?) on it. However, the inscription on the bottom of each of the links is exactly the same as mine. It's looking like the best 25 cents I've ever spent. Now I have the inscription in English, it should be a little easier to track down. Once again, thank you and your wife very much for your assistance.

thanx,
capt-zero
Click to expand...

Don't like to be the bearer of bad news but the starting price on that auction link was 1,000 yen ($12) and the item sold for 19,000 yen ($240). On the bright side, the seller states in the item description that it is made of pure silver.
 

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capt-zero

Hero Member
Jul 28, 2012
711
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Primary Interest:
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Oh well, I knew that I wouldn't get anywhere near that amount on resale here, but I collect Japanese bowls and vases, when I can get them. It's kind of nice that it's not too valuable to hang on too. There have been a couple of things I've come across I've really liked, but were worth too much and I couldn't afford to keep them. By the way, I really appreciate your help on this. I've been all over the web trying to research this and this is the only place that's been any help.
 

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capt-zero

Hero Member
Jul 28, 2012
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I know this is an old thread, but just wanted to let everyone know the final result. I just had an electronic assay of the bowl and it tested 95%. The person offered me $300 and being poor right now I accepted. I don't feel too bad about it though, I only paid 25 cents.
 

cyberdan

cyberdan

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capt-zero said:
I know this is an old thread, but just wanted to let everyone know the final result. I just had an electronic assay of the bowl and it tested 95%. The person offered me $300 and being poor right now I accepted. I don't feel too bad about it though, I only paid 25 cents.
Click to expand...
you did pretty good on that. today's silver value is about $327, if I melted it my refinery would take 10%
 

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