JESUIT TREASURES - ARE THEY REAL?

[markmar]

And I suppose that the Jesuits would tell you if their real maps are real?

Holyground

What many people don't know about the Jesuit treasure maps , is how their maps are never oriented to a principal cardinal point . They made their maps to be oriented in regards with the main trail for which they would give some clues . And , the most important clue in their maps , is how they choosed the clues in that manner so the main trail to go always ( or to start and go for at least half way ) east . Knowing this detail , someone can recognize in what direction the map lies .
There are not fake maps , only little changed/modified by mistake or intentionally . If someone knows about few clues/landmarks depicted in the map , then can recognize where the " fake " part is .

 

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[JohnWhite]

Just like Father Polzer SJ. Any time he was shown an ingot attributed to Jesuits, he would proclaim them as fakes. Not because of any scientific method, but according to him, Jesuits never had treasure, so the bars must be fakes. Although, in (IIRC)1986, when someone claimed to have found Tayopa, Father Polzer flew to Mexico to claim it for the Church. LOL

Mike

Wouldn't it be something IF that someone was Don Jose de Tayopa Heck...Even I wonder IF I have stumbled upon Tayopa myself Who can say for certain hahaha

Ed T

 

[Holyground]

In my humble opinion, the Jesuits were nothing but a mercenary group of self serving psychos. They made money at every turn. They supplied the mines, supplied the labor and grew the food for the miners and soldiers. The guys that sold whiskey and Levis left the gold fields of California wealthy. They were mining, there is no doubt. They said they were not mining so they were not obligated to pay the royal fifth. They paid the soldiers to keep the Indian laborors in check. If that meant mistreatment, so be it. Polzer is looked at like he was some great saint. He lied all of the time in the name of the Jesuit code. I don't care if you are Catholic or whatever, WRONG IS WRONG! It's time to fess up to the wrongs of the Catholic church and stop being afraid of their God. He is not your God. The only Priest I even half trust is Kino. That's only because I can't dig up any dirt on him but then, all of his Indains are long dead and dead men tell no tales. And another thing. In my own opinion, putting 2 and 2 together, I think the Jesuits made church ornaments out of a lot of their gold and silver and that was how they hid it, not only in plain sight, but in mine shafts or caves as well. Who would question a Jesuit with a few burro loads of church ornaments? I even have reason to believe that they were counterfiting gold and silver coins. They were the mafia of the day. Anyone that can't grasp that really is living some sort of a dream. The Jesuits were thinking that they would overthrow Charles and start their own country in what is America. That is why they were arrested and nuetered. Now this may seem harsh but I don't correspond with Jesuits so I got no skin in their game. I pick my friends better.

 

[Holyground]

Holyground

What many people don't know about the Jesuit treasure maps , is how their maps are never oriented to a principal cardinal point . They made their maps to be oriented in regards with the main trail for which they would give some clues . And , the most important clue in their maps , is how they choosed the clues in that manner so the main trail to go always ( or to start and go for at least half way ) east . Knowing this detail , someone can recognize in what direction the map lies .
There are not fake maps , only little changed/modified by mistake or intentionally . If someone knows about few clues/landmarks depicted in the map , then can recognize where the " fake " part is .

I'm sorry markmar but you are dead wrong. Jesuit maps tell you exactly were the treasure is but you don't know how to read them. You are supposing this is the way it is. It isn't. Jesuits used the greatest subterfuge the world has ever known, and may never know. The Pythagorean Theorem has rules and you can't change them.

 

[Holyground]

When Polzer proclaimed the Jesuit (so called Peralta) Stones were fake, I knew instantly they were real. The biggest reason for Polzer claiming that they were fakes is because they were out of the Jesuits control and into the public domain. Like I always ask and really want to know: Would the Jesuits really tell you if a map was theirs...and real? Hummm....

 

[markmar]

I'm sorry markmar but you are dead wrong. Jesuit maps tell you exactly were the treasure is but you don't know how to read them. You are supposing this is the way it is. It isn't. Jesuits used the greatest subterfuge the world has ever known, and may never know. The Pythagorean Theorem has rules and you can't change them.

I gave you a clue and you are not obligated to believe it or to follow it . If I'am wrong or not , that's only your opinion . They used clues on the maps which the most were known only to them . You can't blame their maps if you are not skilled in decrypting them .
You believe the Jesuit treasure are real ,only because a Jesuit padre said they are fake . The better way to know if a Jesuit map is fake or real , is to know to read it and searching for its accuracy . You can't disbelieve their documents only because some folks looked at them with empathy and jealousy . They were humans and did what all the people in that era did , but keeping their religious status .

 

[Holyground]

Okay markmar, we'll go with that.

 

[Oroblanco]

Just would add that good father Kino doesn't have a perfectly spotless record himself, and was involved in silver mining. They could always state that they (personally) owned no mines and did no mining, because the mines "belonged" to each individual mission, visita, college etc. There was an exception, which father Polzer referred to in which a Jesuit padre owned and operated a mine of his own while serving as a padre, but it is difficult to get more details on this example.

Do your own research and make your own conclusions, don't take my word on it. The Jesuits were not just mining for enough silver and gold to make a salt cellar and a few candlesticks. One mine in AZ had over 200,000 tons of ore removed, and the slag left over was rich enough to re-process which tells you the ore must have been remarkably rich.

Please do continue:

 

[Holyground]

Just would add that good father Kino doesn't have a perfectly spotless record himself, and was involved in silver mining. They could always state that they (personally) owned no mines and did no mining, because the mines "belonged" to each individual mission, visita, college etc. There was an exception, which father Polzer referred to in which a Jesuit padre owned and operated a mine of his own while serving as a padre, but it is difficult to get more details on this example.

Do your own research and make your own conclusions, don't take my word on it. The Jesuits were not just mining for enough silver and gold to make a salt cellar and a few candlesticks. One mine in AZ had over 200,000 tons of ore removed, and the slag left over was rich enough to re-process which tells you the ore must have been remarkably rich.

Please do continue:

Yes, that is true. I have no problem with any on them getting rich. I am a #1 Capitalist Pig Deluxe! However, mistreating the Native Americans is a different story. I am third generation Arizonian and I have Apache inlaw/outlaws. I have heard blood currdling stories of the mistreatment by the Jesuits many times. Enough to know that it is true. The Jesuits were mercenaries of the highest order. That's not to say that they weren't brilliant, or some of them anyway. After all, they were created to crush the Reformation. Polzer really TORKS MY TUBES with his self rightous hogwash. He did say one thing that was true however. He told us he was not saying that there couldn't be Church Treasure buried in the highest mountains in long forgotten Indian strongholds. That's where it is buried...was buried. There is more. They couldn't refind it all, much to their great discomfort. In the 1700s, they were positioning themselves to take America and create their own country. They had the bank. That's all you really need! Our entire government is built on the dollar. It could have just as easily been built on the Doubloon...or the Gold Ignatius, of which we would all be Loyola to today. After you have all the money, POWER is all that is left. The Jesuits were power hungry and ready to control the world through their god. Reminds me of that silly little Knights Templar story. Hummm. "Let's get out there and set the world on fire boys!"

 

[Oroblanco]

Yes, that is true. I have no problem with any on them getting rich. I am a #1 Capitalist Pig Deluxe! However, mistreating the Native Americans is a different story. I am third generation Arizonian and I have Apache inlaw/outlaws. I have heard blood currdling stories of the mistreatment by the Jesuits many times. Enough to know that it is true. The Jesuits were mercenaries of the highest order. That's not to say that they weren't brilliant, or some of them anyway. After all, they were created to crush the Reformation. Polzer really TORKS MY TUBES with his self rightous hogwash. He did say one thing that was true however. He told us he was not saying that there couldn't be Church Treasure buried in the highest mountains in long forgotten Indian strongholds. That's where it is buried...was buried. There is more. They couldn't refind it all, much to their great discomfort. In the 1700s, they were positioning themselves to take America and create their own country. They had the bank. That's all you really need! Our entire government is built on the dollar. It could have just as easily been built on the Doubloon...or the Gold Ignatius, of which we would all be Loyola to today. After you have all the money, POWER is all that is left. The Jesuits were power hungry and ready to control the world through their god. Reminds me of that silly little Knights Templar story. Hummm. "Let's get out there and set the world on fire boys!"

According to the official records, from the mouths of the Pimas themselves, it was mistreatment by the padres that led to the 1751 revolt. One Pima even fled to the Spanish to escape the wrath of the padres, which rather puts the lie to the myth of the evil and brutal Spanish treatment of the natives. At least it was not the case in EVERY instance, there were many cases of Spanish mistreatment of Amerindians.

Please do continue,

 

[gollum]

According to the official records, from the mouths of the Pimas themselves, it was mistreatment by the padres that led to the 1751 revolt. One Pima even fled to the Spanish to escape the wrath of the padres, which rather puts the lie to the myth of the evil and brutal Spanish treatment of the natives. At least it was not the case in EVERY instance, there were many cases of Spanish mistreatment of Amerindians.

Please do continue,

Luis Oacpicagigua was called a "Chichimec Cur" and his baton of authority was taken from him..........unless you believe "Pimas, Dead Padres, and Gold"!

Mike

 

[Dirt1955]

Mike, in the past you posted a lot of info on the Spanish trail heading west. Have you researched Jesuit trails heading east to the rio grande?

 

[gollum]

Mike, in the past you posted a lot of info on the Spanish trail heading west. Have you researched Jesuit trails heading east to the rio grande?

Hey Dirt,

Not sure where they are exactly, but somewhere in the Victorio Peak Section, you can find a couple of maps that fit together nicely. One is Willie Douthit's Map, and the other appears to show a trail and several mines from Tayopa heading to the Northeast. The final "ALMACEN" (counting/storage room) looks to be in the area of the headwaters of the Gila River.

Mike

 

[deducer]

Luis Oacpicagigua was called a "Chichimec Cur" and his baton of authority was taken from him..........unless you believe "Pimas, Dead Padres, and Gold"!

Mike

By Padre Ignacio Keller. Luis only agreed to surrender if Keller, Sedlmayer, and Garrucho were either removed or transferred from the Pimeria Alta. The Jesuits were later exonerated by the viceroy and the Spaniards later re-arrested Luis and built the presidio at Tubac rather than responding to the grievances of the O'odham.

 

[Real of Tayopa]

yep, they are real.]

 

[seascene]

Jesuit Treasures are they Real?

Just popped in here for an interesting read during the grey mist of our wintered over Vancouver Island seascape. I have been researching a coastal wilderness lucrative trade between various nations and remote, north coastal indigenous peoples in the late 18th century. One of my resource readings revealed that indeed there was lots of gold in Spanish Mexico (as talked about in this thread). I thought you might find this quote interesting for those posting here.

"Like the Russians, the Spanish operated under several important disadvantages. While they could trade into Chinese seaports (unlike the Russians) their objective was to obtain Asian mercury to support their gold and silver processing operations in Mexico. The sea otter trade was, for the British, Americans, and Russians, about selling cheaply acquired pelts and obtaining highly desirable Chinese products — tea, silk, porcelain — for sale at a further profit in Europe. For the Spanish, it was about enhancing gold production in Mexico. "

 

[Oroblanco]

Jesuit Treasures are they Real?

Just popped in here for an interesting read during the grey mist of our wintered over Vancouver Island seascape. I have been researching a coastal wilderness lucrative trade between various nations and remote, north coastal indigenous peoples in the late 18th century. One of my resource readings revealed that indeed there was lots of gold in Spanish Mexico (as talked about in this thread). I thought you might find this quote interesting for those posting here.

"Like the Russians, the Spanish operated under several important disadvantages. While they could trade into Chinese seaports (unlike the Russians) their objective was to obtain Asian mercury to support their gold and silver processing operations in Mexico. The sea otter trade was, for the British, Americans, and Russians, about selling cheaply acquired pelts and obtaining highly desirable Chinese products — tea, silk, porcelain — for sale at a further profit in Europe. For the Spanish, it was about enhancing gold production in Mexico. "

May I ask for the source of that quote? Thanks in advance. I am not doubting it whatsoever, in fact not too long ago I learned that the Russian church at Sitka was very proud of the silver church bell they had obtained from the famous Tayopa. Unfortunately a fire destroyed the church, have not been able to determine what happened to the bell.

Please do continue;

 

[Holyground]

Jesuit Treasures are they Real?

Just popped in here for an interesting read during the grey mist of our wintered over Vancouver Island seascape. I have been researching a coastal wilderness lucrative trade between various nations and remote, north coastal indigenous peoples in the late 18th century. One of my resource readings revealed that indeed there was lots of gold in Spanish Mexico (as talked about in this thread). I thought you might find this quote interesting for those posting here.


"Like the Russians, the Spanish operated under several important disadvantages. While they could trade into Chinese seaports (unlike the Russians) their objective was to obtain Asian mercury to support their gold and silver processing operations in Mexico. The sea otter trade was, for the British, Americans, and Russians, about selling cheaply acquired pelts and obtaining highly desirable Chinese products — tea, silk, porcelain — for sale at a further profit in Europe. For the Spanish, it was about enhancing gold production in Mexico. "

Yes, can you give us the source for our own perusal?

 

[seascene]

Yes, can you give us the source for our own perusal?

https://opentextbc.ca/preconfederation/chapter/13-3-fur-trade-and-empires/

Good luck but I do not think this source has a focus on Mexican Jesuit treasure ... just a historical footnote.

The zone of my interest was a remote coastal "Klondike" of its day... Spanish coin for sea otter pelts. Brits, Russkies, Spanish and US ships ...millions in trading frenzy for about 20 years. What has been left behind in those old trading rendezvous locations now invisible vanished into wilderness? My fun continues... a trip is planned.

 

[Oroblanco]

https://opentextbc.ca/preconfederation/chapter/13-3-fur-trade-and-empires/

Good luck but I do not think this source has a focus on Mexican Jesuit treasure ... just a historical footnote.

The zone of my interest was a remote coastal "Klondike" of its day... Spanish coin for sea otter pelts. Brits, Russkies, Spanish and US ships ...millions in trading frenzy for about 20 years. What has been left behind in those old trading rendezvous locations now invisible vanished into wilderness? My fun continues... a trip is planned.

View attachment 1652322

Thanks! That was a fascinating read! I owe you one.

Please do continue;