JULIA THOMAS

[Cubfan64]

It is about trying to winnow out the BS. H.E.A.T. did not find bullion? However, they discovered archaeological evidence suggesting that Hispanic miners had been to the Superstition Mountains, about the time of the Mexican Period, 1821 – 1848. This is a very controversial and 'highly rejected theory by Arizona historians' Why Because Violent death guarded the secret of the Apache. And the Historians dont want an 'apache war' and niether do i, but this is terrorism and that has no place here in america. Its obvious people have been fighting over gold in the supers for a very long time and now its going to stop one way or another and the U.S. government is already preparing and increasing their agents. Nothing anyone can do but just come completely clean if they 'understand' what is best. No More Blind Mans Bluff Travis B

So there is an enormous government wide conspiracy involving apache, terrorism and the history of the Superstition Mountains? Well, anyone can cry wolf - if you have evidence, share it, otherwise yours is just another in a long line of crazy conspiracy theories.

i never said it was a conspiracy , those are your words not mine..

i just stated that the goverment knew there was evidence that did suport these legends were in fact true .. and they did step in and make this goverment land .. did they not .. are you blind ? i was i know the diffrence ...

I was responding to a quote by "Native One," not Blindbowman - it's a little curious that you thought I was responding to you isn't it?

 

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[NativeOne]

I have no clue as to why Blind Bowman responded, he will have to explain why, it's a little curious yes. However this entire group is yet drawing way more than curious investigation, if you know what i mean.

 

[Blindbowman]

so your saying no one can respond to any thing you say . or are you saying i can not respond about something you said to some else .. ? so what is it ?. i can not respond to anything on the site because you say so .grow up and act your age ...

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi Group,

It looks to me like Julia Thomas lived in tough times. She married, owned an ice cream shop, divorced and was left to fend for herself. No food stamps or welfare. She lived and survived by using her minds wit and made calculated decisions involving her possessions and what little money she had. I admire her independence, her hard work; she used all that was in her grasp (even Jacob) to stay ahead of the "rat race".

Eventually she re-married and went on to live a pretty good life after all was said and done. On top of that she was considered a black woman, not even white or Hispanic. She was accepted and had a good number of friends who trusted her. Her friends even loaned her money knowing they would get it back. She even put her place up for collateral allowing her to take out other loans to keep her alive until better times were to come. She was a good business woman a testimony proven by the number of years she owned and ran her store.

Jacob was well to do and he also became a friend of Julia's or at least a well known acquaintance. People love to talk and brag and we are quite sure that he had on many occasions told her about his mine(whether he had one or not). Was he not a prospector and a miner? He just happened to fit right in with the townsfolk and was known as an upright citizen. And yes, he occasionally took trips into the desert as some believed that he actually had a mine, and why not? He was telling the townsfolk what they wanted to hear. Julia knew he was well to do and like a spider she wanted to keep this man close to her because he just might be the guy to change her fortunes. We all know the drill. Times were bad and money for Julia resided on a very short leash.

Attached are a few documents that indicated her plight. One of Julia’s friends associated with these documents is also known to us.

Later,

EB

 

[Blindbowman]

so your saying they had line paper in 1890.....?

 

[Ellie Baba]

so your saying they had line paper in 1890.....?

Yes they did and anyone can look up these recorded documents on line. These are the real images as they were recorded. Attached is the document referring to her mortgage.

Elli Baba

 

[Ellie Baba]

Hi All,

Took me a few minutes to gather all of the pertinent information as to locate Julia's Lode Mining Claim and I would guess the accuracy to be within a mile.

K = Kyrene Railway Station located at Warner Rd. and Kyrene Rd. Yellow tag w/mason trowel is Julia Schaffer (Thomas) lode claim location. Today, the Gila Indian Reservation is located as is shown.

Back when they filed the mining claim the Gila reservation was occupied by the Pima/Maricopa Tribes who were later moved to Ft McDowel and are now located near Scottsdale, AZ., Mesa, AZ. The Salt River runs along their southern border. North western border from Pima and 90th St. East to the Verde River and beyond to the northeastern border.

Later,

Ellie B

 

[Blindbowman]

dont tell me there is a lost julia mine ...lol

 

[Oroblanco]

dont tell me there is a lost julia mine ...lol

 

[Oroblanco]

Blindbowman wrote

i got to say the story sound very realizestic .....when sims threw in the rocking chair and pipe i almost lol

Starting to get a different picture of Jacob Waltz amigo? Perhaps he was not quite the cold-blooded vicious murderer he is portrayed to be by some other authors, remember Ely actually interviewed the people closest to Waltz. However it will definitely sell more books if the main character is a greedy, bloodthirsty killer than a kindly, wise old gentleman who sold off his own gold to help a friend save her business.
Oroblanco

 

[Oroblanco]

Blindbowman wrote

but you could also say we had very little insight to bipolar disorder in those early years lol

So you are saying that Waltz was likely bipolar? Would a man necessarily be bipolar, if he were kind to his friends, but dangerous to his enemies? After all, people were quite willing to jump his claim and steal his gold, even track and trail him back to the mine so they could kill him and take the mine and the gold. A prospector will generally protect his own interests (and life) so does that make him bipolar? Your take on this is difficult to understand, unless you are looking at Waltz through the eyes of Dick Holmes? Holmes was no prospector, but a good tracker and certainly willing to try to follow him with the darkest of plans on catching Waltz at the mine. To him it must have been inexplicable to see Waltz give away a fair sized fortune of his own hard-won gold to help Julia save her business. Can you explain further, why you have that particular viewpoint? Thank you in any case;
Oroblanco

 

[NativeOne]

The conspiracy supposedly
included Abe Reid, George “Brownie” Holmes, Milton Rose, Jack
Keenan and Leroy Purnell. The ranch was the Quarter Circle U in
Pinal County and the man to be murdered was Adolph Ruth, a Washington,
D.C., gold hunter. Doubt was only
raised when Ruth’s son, Erwin, made claims his father was murdered
for a map he carried. http://www.ajpl.org/aj/superstition/stories/Murder at the U Ranch.pdf

 

[Cubfan64]

The conspiracy supposedly
included Abe Reid, George “Brownie” Holmes, Milton Rose, Jack
Keenan and Leroy Purnell. The ranch was the Quarter Circle U in
Pinal County and the man to be murdered was Adolph Ruth, a Washington,
D.C., gold hunter. Doubt was only
raised when Ruth’s son, Erwin, made claims his father was murdered
for a map he carried. http://www.ajpl.org/aj/superstition/stories/Murder at the U Ranch.pdf

What does this have to do with Julia Thomas?

 

[cactusjumper]

Paul,

Seems obvious that bb finally purchased, and read, some LDM books and wants to show off his newly won knowledge. It's about time.

Now if he can just figure out why his posts have nothing to do with Julia Thomas, he'll be home free.

Take care,

Joe

 

[Blindbowman]

sorry i never read books about a topic before i research the realities of the topic at first hand ..someone trying to sell books may not have the same goal i do ..

 

[Hal Croves]

Hi Group,

It looks to me like Julia Thomas lived in tough times. She married, owned an ice cream shop, divorced and was left to fend for herself. No food stamps or welfare. She lived and survived by using her minds wit and made calculated decisions involving her possessions and what little money she had. I admire her independence, her hard work; she used all that was in her grasp (even Jacob) to stay ahead of the "rat race".

Eventually she re-married and went on to live a pretty good life after all was said and done. On top of that she was considered a black woman, not even white or Hispanic. She was accepted and had a good number of friends who trusted her. Her friends even loaned her money knowing they would get it back. She even put her place up for collateral allowing her to take out other loans to keep her alive until better times were to come. She was a good business woman a testimony proven by the number of years she owned and ran her store.

Jacob was well to do and he also became a friend of Julia's or at least a well known acquaintance. People love to talk and brag and we are quite sure that he had on many occasions told her about his mine(whether he had one or not). Was he not a prospector and a miner? He just happened to fit right in with the townsfolk and was known as an upright citizen. And yes, he occasionally took trips into the desert as some believed that he actually had a mine, and why not? He was telling the townsfolk what they wanted to hear. Julia knew he was well to do and like a spider she wanted to keep this man close to her because he just might be the guy to change her fortunes. We all know the drill. Times were bad and money for Julia resided on a very short leash.

Attached are a few documents that indicated her plight. One of Julia’s friends associated with these documents is also known to us.

Later,

EB

I have always thought that Julia was black. The records that I viewed tonight all list her as “white”, born in Louisiana with both parents being German. Anyone know why she is associated as being black?

Was it even legal for whites and blacks to marry in AZ prior to 1962?

 

[Matthew Roberts]

I have always wondered about Julia's color myself. It was illegal in Texas for a white man to marry a black woman when Julia and Emil Thomas were married in Colorado City, Texas.

It was not illegal in Arizona but was very much frowned upon. Julia must have been able to pass herself off as a white woman in Texas to have been married there.

I know Julia's father was a white man of German descent and born in America in the state of Georgia. Her mother's name was Mammie (Mammy) which was a slave name used to denote someone's mother or "Mammie".

Several news articles in Phoenix papers refer to Julia as "colored" and her death certificate designates her as , "negro".

I have to believe Julia was indeed partially black but could pass herself off as white as she must have in Texas.

 

[Matthew Roberts]

I believe Julia did pass herself off as a white woman when she married Emil Thoma (Thomas) in Colorado City, Texas. She did not list herself as black on the marriage paper but then if she did she wouldn't have been able to marry.

 

[azdave35]

I believe Julia did pass herself off as a white woman when she married Emil Thoma (Thomas) in Colorado City, Texas. She did not list herself as black on the marriage paper but then if she did she wouldn't have been able to marry.

everything i read points to her being mulato

 

[Hal Croves]

I have always wondered about Julia's color myself. It was illegal in Texas for a white man to marry a black woman when Julia and Emil Thomas were married in Colorado City, Texas.

It was not illegal in Arizona but was very much frowned upon. Julia must have been able to pass herself off as a white woman in Texas to have been married there.

I know Julia's father was a white man of German descent and born in America in the state of Georgia. Her mother's name was Mammie (Mammy) which was a slave name used to denote someone's mother or "Mammie".

Several news articles in Phoenix papers refer to Julia as "colored" and her death certificate designates her as , "negro".

I have to believe Julia was indeed partially black but could pass herself off as white as she must have in Texas.

Yes, Texas didn’t overturn their anti-miscegenation laws until 1967 ((Loving v. Virginia), Arizona repealed them in 1962. There is a Jstor article that mentions something about Arizona following California law in 1862/63 regarding blacks and Mexicans being allowed to marry. I just can’t access the full article.. yet.

How blacks were defined in those times is fascinating and for Julia to accomplish what she did as a woman of color is a mystery.

mulatto - half white/half black
quadroon or quarteron - a person with one white parent and one mulatto
octoroon or metif - a person with one white parent and one quadroon
sexatroon or meamelouc - 1/16 black
demi-meameluc - 1/32 black
sangmelee - 1/64 black
griffe - 3/4 black & 1/4 white or black & Native American mix
marabou - 5/8 black
sacatra - 7/8 black

contraband - slaves fleeing their masters to enter union lines

Emil Thomas - Julia Corn.
Julia W Thomas - Albert Schaffer .... The “W” seems to contradict the “E” that articles list unless “E” represents Emil.
Zien Israel - is this name used on her death certificate?

Is anything known about D & Margaret Kahrs, witnesses to the 1893 marriage?