KGC Tunnels built after the War

[okietreasurehunter]

Jay, since Hoss doesn't like me jumping to conclusions I'll ask again since you may have missed my earlier post. Have you been inside the tunnels under Brownwood and if so could you describe them? If we could find out the building materials, architecture style, etc. It may help to identify where the builders came from, the source area for the building materials, and even give a definite date for construction of them.

 

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[Texas Jay]

okie, I know the dimensions, route, and depth of the tunnel network under the city of Brownwood, Texas. I also know that some of the walls have symbols on them. Since you or no one else replied to my offer of allowing another group to follow-up on these tunnels, that I posted several months ago, my partner and I are currently working on this project ourselves. We are doing it in addition to working on our KGC treasure sites as well as managing our Yahoo group so our time is very limited. I will be releasing some information about the tunnel research and progress within the next two months. I will probably release it first through our local newspaper so you can subscribe to it if you want to know the answer to your first question.

For an excellent 2-page article on our group's work, order the Feb. 24, 2008 Horizons issue of the Bulletin by calling:
Brownwood Bulletin - 325-641-3107

~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

 

[okietreasurehunter]

Jay, I just recently read about your request for help. My time is very limited and I wouldn't have been able to make the time for an extended stay. I do study building techniques of different cultures. I also have a network of experts in any number of fields that could have helped you with research, carbon testing, etc.

A simple yes or no about being in the tunnels would have been nice, but I guess that would have been too easy. It also makes it look like you were dodging the question by blaming everyone else for not dropping everything to run down and help you.

Hoss, what do you make of Jays answer?

 

[Texas Jay]

Okay, okie, here is the answer you are craving. No, I have not YET been inside one of the tunnels but that will probably change within the next two weeks as local people have been great about responding to the newspaper article of 2008 where I spoke about this tunnel network. I know where one entrance is that almost no one else knows about but am having some trouble contacting the property owner so I cannot go into it without that person's permission. I am in the process of setting an appointment with another person who said he/she will show me another entrance at a place where I knew one was at but I didn't have access. I know where one entrance was discovered a few years ago when they were tearing down an old building near our courthouse square. A man's front loader fell into it. The powers that be filled this entrance in with 3 truckloads of cement. Henry Ford, Jr., the grgrandson of Brownwood's Henry Ford, had been in another of the network's entrances when he was a young man. Another entrance was in Henry Ford's Coggin, Ford and Martin Bank building. By the way, Henry Ford Jr. was about my age when he began seriously researching his grgrandfather and the KGC. In the 1990's, while getting very close to solving the mysteries of his grgrandfather and the KGC, Henry Jr. received a death threat from a man. By noon the day after receiving the death threat, Henry Ford Jr. was dead!
So, there you have it, the "easy" answer. Problem is, as anyone can clearly see, nothing related to the KGC in Brownwood is easy. The reason I will first give the story to the Brownwood Bulletin is because I feel my first obligation is to the people of Brown County, Texas because, after all, it is THEIR history. My next obligation is to the members of our Bloody Bill Anderson Mystery group who have spent thousands of hours researching these important historical topics over the past 4 and a half years.
And, no, I am not blaming anyone for not offering to take on this project. I learned long ago that if you want something done right, do it yourself. In addition to having many local citizens who have offered their assistance, I also have a network of experts I can call upon to help in specialized areas.
~Texas Jay

 

[truckinbutch]

Be as public as possible , Jay . That's the only protection you have . I don't question that there are still folks out there that wish many things to remain hidden .
Jim

 

[okietreasurehunter]

Jay, good luck on your project. I hope you get the permission you need. It seems like an intersting project to tackle. Hopefully you can fully document all the routes the tunnel takes around town. Maybe there will be some goodies still hidden for you to find.

 

[BoggyBottomJay]

TexasJay are your referring to the old industrial tunnels that lay under Brownwood?

 

[Texas Jay]

TexasJay are your referring to the old industrial tunnels that lay under Brownwood?

Ha. No, Boggy, this tunnel network predates any "industry" in Brownwood by about 90 years. Anyone who knows anything about the City of Brownwood's history knows that "industries" in Brownwood are located 5 or 6 miles from the downtown area in a large zoned area known as Brownwood Industrial Park in the same location as Camp Bowie was during WWII.
~Texas Jay

 

[Texas Jay]

Jay, good luck on your project. I hope you get the permission you need. It seems like an intersting project to tackle. Hopefully you can fully document all the routes the tunnel takes around town. Maybe there will be some goodies still hidden for you to find.

Thank you, okie, for the well wishes. I'm hoping that once this first step is accomplished that other citizens will come forward with permission to extend our work to other entrances that may be on their property in the city. While we know the basic route of this network, thanks to other area KGC researchers before us who have given us the results of their work, you are right in saying that these other tunnels need to be explored and documented as we can. I've never believed that any real valuables were hidden in these tunnels as that was not their purpose but I do believe that the history revealed in them will be "treasure" of a historical nature and that, to me, is just as important.
~Texas Jay

 

[BoggyBottomJay]

TexasJay are your referring to the old industrial tunnels that lay under Brownwood?

Ha. No, Boggy, this tunnel network predates any "industry" in Brownwood by about 90 years. Anyone who knows anything about the City of Brownwood's history knows that "industries" in Brownwood are located 5 or 6 miles from the downtown area in a large zoned area known as Brownwood Industrial Park in the same location as Camp Bowie was during WWII.
~Texas Jay

What time frame are you referring too? Dates? area?

 

[Texas Jay]

Around 1876, the Centennial. The area is the immediate downtown area, possibly a bit farther out but not even close to the Camp Bowie area.
~Texas Jay

 

[BoggyBottomJay]

When would Brownwood have become present day Brownwood? Isnt present Day Early the actual site of the first Brownwood?

 

[okietreasurehunter]

Does this look like Jesse James handwriting?

 

[Texas Jay]

When would Brownwood have become present day Brownwood? Isnt present Day Early the actual site of the first Brownwood?

The town of Brownwood, Texas was founded on the Pecan Bayou in 1856 and a few years later moved to where the downtown area is today. Actually, the Pecan Bayou is the boundary between Brownwood and Early. Early sits east of the Bayou. Some say that Brownwood actually started on that side of the Bayou but I'm not so sure. In the 1860s, Brownwood moved to the present-day site.

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/BB/heb13.html

~Texas Jay

 

[BoggyBottomJay]

When would Brownwood have become present day Brownwood? Isnt present Day Early the actual site of the first Brownwood?

The town of Brownwood, Texas was founded on the Pecan Bayou in 1856 and a few years later moved to where the downtown area is today. Actually, the Pecan Bayou is the boundary between Brownwood and Early. Early sits east of the Bayou. Some say that Brownwood actually started on that side of the Bayou but I'm not so sure. In the 1860s, Brownwood moved to the present-day site.

http://www.tshaonline.org/handbook/online/articles/BB/heb13.html

~Texas Jay

Now would these tunnels be made of concrete, rock, or timbered? If concrete is it the old concrete that is mostly sand with very little portland? Do you believe the tunnels where built after or before the town set above?

 

[lastleg]

BBJay, I know of a concrete foundation for a Texas post office that dates from
the 1880's and is still sound after at least 100 years exposed to the elements.
So not all old concrete is inferior.

 

[okietreasurehunter]

The Romans developed and used concrete of which some structures are still standing today.

 

[Texas Jay]

The description of the material the tunnels were constructed from, according to a man who was in one of them, is that they are "plastered-over rock". As I said earlier, the tunnels were constructed around 1876 which was many years after the town was established at present-day Brownwood.
~Texas Jay
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bloodybillandersonmystery

 

[BoggyBottomJay]

BBJay, I know of a concrete foundation for a Texas post office that dates from
the 1880's and is still sound after at least 100 years exposed to the elements.
So not all old concrete is inferior.

I never said anything about the concrete being inferior. If you have ever seen cement that is over 150 years old most of the sand is exposed and you don't see much portland in it do to being weathered or having water flow over it for many years. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that bud

 

[lastleg]

Let me get this straight. The town was up and running, then the KGC
showed up and tunneled UNDER the buldings or did they run the occupants
out and dig interconnecting basements underneath?
If it was the former weren't the businesses concerned about undermining
their livelyhood? Say you were selling a pair of brogans to a lady and you
hear Europeans shovelling out the dirt holding you up.
It sounds to me like the tunnels were already in place like natural pathways
to Pecan Bayou through native limestone. I think the Brownwoodians built
their town near the bayou for the water never even knowing the natural
watercourse was feeding the bayou. After they built somebody dug a well
and got water at 3 feet and exclaimed "Hey, we got all the water we need
under Brownwood without having to haul it in." Naturally they got greedy
and consumed so much water that the watertable eventually disappeared.
That's when the KGC showed up wanting a secret place to dress up in
white gowns and the mayor told them "Hey guys, we got these empty
limestone caverns right underneath the town. You can get them cheap."
Jay said the "tunnels looked like plastered over rock." Well, guess what?
That's what white limestone looks like too. Sheeesh, this is so easy.

lastleg