Knights of the Golden Circle, Order of American Knights, Freemasons and Kabbalah

[Rebel - KGC]

COULD BE!

 

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[Rebel - KGC]

PLEASE Show Any Credible Sources PRIOR to the 1930's where it says Jesse Woodson James was Comptroller for KGC that has NOTHING to do with Houk...When I say Credible, I mean Nothing that could be compared to the National Inquirer or The Police Gazette Or Anything listed as Fiction..Or Google.

Geez...just about every page in the BB is a lie and/or misrepresentation.

Start with... Houk wasn't Originally Jesse Lee James, Jesse James lll, or Jesse Woodson James' Grandson by Any Name. He changed his name to scam people.

J.Frank Dalton wasn't Jesse Woodson James or Senator William Andrews Clark or Henry Ford or Any other well known name Houk claimed.

Alexander Franklin James Wasn't A Doctor...

There were Not 2 or 3 sets of Jesse and Frank James who were cousins.

Charlie Bigelow didn't exist, which means he wasn't killed in place of JWJ.

None of the characters in the BB from Cole Younger to the Black Cobra lived to be 107, 115 or 127yrs old.

That book is the Original Forrest Gump.

I would love to see any recognized Masonic literature that states Jesse Woodson James was a KGC Comptroller. Scottish Rite/Southern Jurisdiction is fine as long as it's recognized as factual.

You've stated Many Times your not a treasure hunter, metal detectorist etc. You've said prior to breaking your ankle on Black Ice that you are a researcher and the only tool you had was a Boy Scout Knife. I didn't say that you weren't a hunter or detectorist as an insult, a lot of folks read treasure tales and don't act on what they read. Nothing wrong with that.

My point is that by repeating what's read as fact in this case is not right to do without telling Both Sides of the Tale. That's All.

Kace

MY info on JJ is from RESTRICTED areas, such as THE TEMPLE & Reference Libraries on SR/SJ; Are YOU a Free-Mason...? OF COURSE NOT! AND! Dated info PRIOR to 1930's @ 1866 + with Gen. Albert Pike.
NOTHING to do with JFD, Houk (et al); PROVE your "point" about the BB. YOU have sources...? ANYWAY, this BICKERING is OFF-TOPIC!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Also, OFF-TOPIC... do YOU have PROOF, that Frank James was NOT a doctor in the Rebel (CSA) Army in Tenn.? I READ IN SEVERAL places about his Rebel (CSA) "experiences" in Tenn. (being a DOCTOR). Think that he was living in Nashville, at the time. While living here in Lynchburg, Va . (1882), he used a different name, James E. Warren (JEW) SO...

 

[franklin]

I believe Frank James was a Doctor. I have read that also. And he used the name Warren a lot of times.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

I DID hunt, until I fractured my right ankle/foot; it had to be re-built with pins & a metal "plate"...

Just like my neck! Better Faster and stronger than before right? LOL!

 

[L.C. BAKER]

The actual name of the book is Jesse James Was One Of His Names... by Del Schrader. Orvus Lee Houk might be credited on it...I'd have to look, but the information in the book is from Houk.

If you can find it Reasonably priced in an old book store or estate sale...Buy It! They sell for several hundred dollars to collectors. Not for accurate information, just collectible.

You used to be able to download it or buy a cd of it for $75, but the last I saw Schrader's estate put a block on that.

Kace

I have a C.D. of the book that cost $75 It was one of those things I HAD to read...... To sum it up best, watch Forrest Gump and pretend that he is JWJ! It is pretty close to the STORY told in that book. " Would you believe it? That guy went on to become..... My opinion only,

L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

The only thing I have ever found and this is something that no other treasure hunter has been able to find on JJ or his brother FJ. On a tree carving I found Jesse above Frank's name and in the middle to the right was only one time and one time only James. Above it to the right was KGC. And above that was the amount of $43,000 and some odd dollars of gold in four "jars" which would have been one half gallon jars. It also gave the direction from the tree, how far and how deep. My partner was to go there and check it out, but since it is in Arkansas and I am in Virginia, I will never get there to find out. So if Jesse James and Frank James were in the KGC then there is a good chance that JJ faked his death as the KGC were notorious for doing similar. I do not believe that J. Frank Dalton or any of Houk's stories told to Dale Shrader were the truth. I believe they were all fabrications of his imagination to entice investors into a scheme to make money.

I believe he faked his death and went on in life as someone not mentioned in the Black book. I have no doubt that the photo he was enticed by Logan Enyart to take of himself in Nebraska City in 1874 was for the perpose of identifying a body at a later date. I also have my own speculations about a man seen in May 1904 sitting in a rocking chair at Arbor Lodge while attending a private party. I also have good reason to believe the O.A.K. may have had more of an "AT ARMS" type of split up with the K.G.C. after 1863 than a renaming of the K.G.C. society as a whole.



https://millercenter.org/president/roosevelt/essays/morton-1904-secretary-of-the-navy

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Also, OFF-TOPIC... do YOU have PROOF, that Frank James was NOT a doctor in the Rebel (CSA) Army in Tenn.? I READ IN SEVERAL places about his Rebel (CSA) "experiences" in Tenn. (being a DOCTOR). Think that he was living in Nashville, at the time. While living here in Lynchburg, Va . (1882), he used a different name, James E. Warren (JEW) SO...

Could Frank have been a Dr. like Jesse was Thomas Howard? Seems more likely to me, seeing as how the profession took years of college to achieve and most Doctors of that day were coming from good old Transylvania U. I have no doubt that he was a field Dr. of sorts due to the distance between Northfield Minn. and Rulo Nebraska.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Two were deceased.

As how he knew about the guards will be hard for some people to believe. But as a boy, he had to bring the cows home by a large tree near the mine entrance. Once he got to the large tree, the cows would balk and go no further. He said he twisted their tail and beat them with sticks but they still would not go. After a lot of encouragement he would finally get them to go but they went way around the tree. He found out later the Choctaw Indian's ghost was present near the large tree and the mine entrance. Every time he had to bring the cows home, he always had a difficult time getting by the large tree and the mine entrance. He told me the Choctaw Indian's name, but I have forgotten. It may be in my computer somewhere. I looked this Choctaw Indian up on the Civil War Data Base and he was a Choctaw Indian that was in the Confederate Army but nothing more is known of him. I believe there are at least three wagon loads of gold sitting in that silver mine directly under this Mason's home, still in the wagons.

Reminds me of the guy who had been married for 75 years to his wife and only argued with her once. They were on their way home from the wedding and his horse would not cross a small steam. The two got off of the groom's horse and he held it by the ears and said to it calmly.."That's Once!" He then slapped it on the rear and tried to coax the horse across the stream and it would still not go. So he shot it dead where it stood. His new bride screamed and cried. He told her hush up and get across that stream! She said I will not! Sooooo he took her by the ears looked her in the eyes and said: "that's once!"

L.C.

 

[franklin]

I have a C.D. of the book that cost $75 It was one of those things I HAD to read...... To sum it up best, watch Forrest Gump and pretend that he is JWJ! It is pretty close to the STORY told in that book. " Would you believe it? That guy went on to become..... My opinion only,

L.C.

That is what I have too. But, I do not believe I paid that much. Can't remember. Have not looked at it in a long time as I consider it useless.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

O.P. was about the Kabbalah... MUCH Mysticism! SR/SJ in the old days were into it. "Google" Kabbalah & Scottish Rite Free-Masons... SOME who became KGC/OAK.

 

[moreb]

I read all of this thread. So I ask the question. Jesse James faked his assassination in 1882? Who did they dig up in 1995? I was under the impression that the DNA of the exhumed body of Jesse James matched the DNA of his gr-grand daughter.

 

[franklin]

One of JJ's first cousins. All kin match the same DNA. All of that DNA work and other work they did was kind of sloppy .

 

[Kace]

The only thing I have ever found and this is something that no other treasure hunter has been able to find on JJ or his brother FJ. On a tree carving I found Jesse above Frank's name and in the middle to the right was only one time and one time only James. Above it to the right was KGC. And above that was the amount of $43,000 and some odd dollars of gold in four "jars" which would have been one half gallon jars. It also gave the direction from the tree, how far and how deep. My partner was to go there and check it out, but since it is in Arkansas and I am in Virginia, I will never get there to find out. So if Jesse James and Frank James were in the KGC then there is a good chance that JJ faked his death as the KGC were notorious for doing similar. I do not believe that J. Frank Dalton or any of Houk's stories told to Dale Shrader were the truth. I believe they were all fabrications of his imagination to entice investors into a scheme to make money.

THAT would be a fun hunt!

I've always thought JWJ faked his death as well...And I agree with everything else you said too.

Kace

 

[Rebel - KGC]

On THIS "Thread"...?

 

[moreb]

One of JJ's first cousins. All kin match the same DNA. All of that DNA work and other work they did was kind of sloppy .

Do you think that JJ's gr-grandson Fed Judge Ross had the dig and testing DNA done to throw off any suspicions of the KGC connection or cover up?

 

[Kace]

Do you think that JJ's gr-grandson Fed Judge Ross had the dig and testing DNA done to throw off any suspicions of the KGC connection or cover up?

I don't think that.

The JW James Family really didn't want an exhumation...There could never be one done that was beyond reproach. No matter what.

JWJ was supposedly killed in 1882

He was Exhumed and reinterred in 1902

Then he was Exhumed and reinterred in 1978

Then he was Exhumed and mtDNA testing done in 1995.

Too many times without any Chain of Custody/Handling. It could always be challenged.

Where the testing did come back as consistent with JWJ...there were others in the family that had been buried in the yard and also relatives that would of had the same mtDNA.

Kace

 

[moreb]

Does it seem odd that J W James, Bill Anderson and W C Quantrill all faked their deaths? All are in the KGC? All have a Missouri connections?

 

[Walker Colt]

Does it seem odd that J W James, Bill Anderson and W C Quantrill all faked their deaths? All are in the KGC? All have a Missouri connections?

And JW Booth faked his death. It seems odd because it's nonsense.

 

[franklin]

And JW Booth faked his death. It seems odd because it's nonsense.

You are most likely right? Years ago, I saw on the Internet a Diary for sale, the price was astronomical so it was out of my purchase range. But anyway this Diary belonged to a Yankee Soldier that was on a ship going to Washington City. This Diary stated that one of the soldiers became so infuriated with John Wilkes Booth that he pulled out his sabre and beheaded him right there on the deck of the ship. Whether true or not I can not tell because as I said I could not purchase this Diary.

The same may be true of Jesse Woodson James and Bill Anderson and Quantrill. About all of the stories of longivity and faking deaths came from Houk in Schraders book "Jesse James was one of his names."