LDM, OZ, & CALALUS

[coazon de oro]

Oro, Joe, etc, I hate you, now I have to go through my disorganized notes

Can't help but to picture you like an old rooster scratching on top of the cluttered notes, looking for something worthy. Green tea?

Homar

 

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[cactusjumper]

Homar,

Something like this?

Joe

 

[Not Peralta]

What about the native American tribes that have spoken nothing but welsh.
What about the old mules in the superstitions every time they would show up in camp
and drink they would sit around the camp fire and speak in pig Latin. NP
ps.no one still understands my post.

 

[cactusjumper]

What about the native American tribes that have spoken nothing but welsh.
What about the old mules in the superstitions every time they would show up in camp
and drink they would sit around the camp fire and speak in pig Latin. NP
ps.no one still understands my post.

NP,

I would just assume you are joking......

Setting the Record Straight: Blue-Eyed Indians and Welsh Mandans

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

ok on th green tea. I used tea when traveing the back country, the natives don't drink tea, and since courtesy demends that you offer a hot drink to casual meetings on the trail my coffee would soon be kaput. Sides tea weighs far less.

No-one worrid about health effects in those days.

NOW ABOUT THAT ANALOGY TO AN OLD SCROUNGY ROOSTER ----------

 

[sdcfia]

sdcfia,

I been waiting for Ben's book for quite a few years now. I kept telling him he owed me a copy of the first edition, signed, because he used so many of my posts to add weight to his stories. Kind of reverse engineering his "evidence".

Take care,

Joe

Well, Hubbard of course parlayed his story into a quite lucrative pay-to-play religion. Joe Smith did all right too, the century before. I wouldn't expect revelations here, but then we don't know what's in the hidden library either. Good luck to all.

 

[cactusjumper]

Don Jose,

"NOW ABOUT THAT ANALOGY TO AN OLD SCROUNGY ROOSTER ----------"

Sir, chickens are noble beasts. You should feel honored to be compared to one...............considering your advanced age, and delicate condition.

Good luck,

Joe

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Delicte condition ?? delicate ? Yer rubbing salt into my wounded ego joe.

 

[coazon de oro]

Don Jose,

What happened Comparde, you missed the joke? Never mind the rooster analogy, the green tea was the joke. That's why there was one cup just for you, it was made with some green apples that Shortfinger sent me. So here's some coffee to help wash the taste away some.

Homar

 

[Not Peralta]

Real,Amigo.
Green Tea? really,Green Tea?, did you take a lot of TP? or did you use the hairy mules tail? np

 

[Not Peralta]

It looks like you will need a lot of Before every one gets their feathers in an uproar. You need to go back and read the post that started this
whole conversation.
post #160, Legend of the Stone Maps. from the very beginning this post was taken completely out of context.
I give an honest opinion concerning the two finds, the post was taken completely out of context for some one elses
convenience ,my true message of the two were lost. that's why I said ,my point is well proven by the comments of
the posts. NP

Maybe some one will figure out exactly what I am talking about in post # 160. np

 

[Oroblanco]

I guess my answer must be a big NO, Starman has no sixth-seventh century Byzantine or Moorish document or record that mentions the exodus of the Calalus colonists.

Carthaginians were sailing in the Atlantic centuries before Christ, and yet even though all of the libraries of Carthage were destroyed or given to their former enemies, and almost NO writings from them survive today, we know about some of their voyages through the Greeks and Romans. Hence if there were really a large exodus of ships leaving the Byzantine empire, loaded with people heading to Arizona to found a colony, I expect that SOME mention of it would be found in the records of the Byzantines or their enemies. I don't know of any such reference. The fact that there is no reference, of course does not prove it could not happen, but it is not encouraging.

 

[lgadbois]

Isn't it amazing that people are willing to argue for years over things where the truth is really unknown? And when we know the truth, we choose to perpetuate a half truth or lie? Waltz wasn't Dutch. He was German which was called Deutch. Waltz wasn't lost, yet the phase, The Lost Dutchman's Mine sticks. Waltz's Mine isn't lost. He had a half dozen or more sources of gold. We don't know the truth about the matchbox jewelry ore. Did it come out of his ore box? Even if it did come out of his ore box, from which mine did it come?

I understand that the Wizard of Oz had some stone maps created that were buried near the Superstition Mountains. His picture is on one of the stones. He was the one that stored all his gold bars on the west side of Bluff Springs Mountain, just below Waltz's Pit Mine. (This is, of course, a lie. Oz actually stored the gold in San Francisco. The Gatlin Brothers figured that one out!)

How many historical references are there to a place or settlement in Arizona called Calalus? Anyone caught a Bigfoot yet? What about the aliens that landed near Superstition Mountain? Are the Ghostbusters having any success?


Of course, stranger things have happened in life. Jesus Christ was never called by either of these two names during His lifetime, yet we use these names to address the Son of God.

 

[sdcfia]

Isn't it amazing that people are willing to argue for years over things where the truth is really unknown? And when we know the truth, we choose to perpetuate a half truth or lie? Waltz wasn't Dutch. He was German which was called Deutch. Waltz wasn't lost, yet the phase, The Lost Dutchman's Mine sticks. Waltz's Mine isn't lost. He had a half dozen or more sources of gold. We don't know the truth about the matchbox jewelry ore. Did it come out of his ore box? Even if it did come out of his ore box, from which mine did it come?

I understand that the Wizard of Oz had some stone maps created that were buried near the Superstition Mountains. His picture is on one of the stones. He was the one that stored all his gold bars on the west side of Bluff Springs Mountain, just below Waltz's Pit Mine. (This is, of course, a lie. Oz actually stored the gold in San Francisco. The Gatlin Brothers figured that one out!)

How many historical references are there to a place or settlement in Arizona called Calalus? Anyone caught a Bigfoot yet? What about the aliens that landed near Superstition Mountain? Are the Ghostbusters having any success?


Of course, stranger things have happened in life. Jesus Christ was never called by either of these two names during His lifetime, yet we use these names to address the Son of God.

Yeah, a lot of what we believe is total bs. The more interesting aspect of this to me isn't the disinformation or those who benefit from the bs, but the level of gullibility of most humans who accept it. We are so very easily manipulated, both as individuals and en mass.

I won't comment on the examples you've mentioned, except, interestingly, bigfoot. As time has gone by, most serious discussions have centered on the Patterson-Gimlin film from the sixties - still the most compelling evidence available for debate. MK Davis - along with ThinkerThunker and others - have provided some quite intriguing bigfoot analyses on YouTube the past couple years, using high tech film correction software. To many observers, of course, the PG film clip clearly shows an unknown hominoid - your results may vary. Be that as it may, the compelling issue with the PG clip now seems to have shifted, not on Patty the bigfoot in the film, but in the circumstances surrounding the day of the filming and those who were involved. More to your point - has anyone caught a bigfoot? Davis and others are gradually accumulating circumstantial evidence that perhaps the PG group killed a second creature the day of the filming and then put together a coverup of that part of the event before releasing the famous film. For me, bigfoot would be just another mystery, except for my 40-year exploration partner's statement about twenty years ago, "I don't need to be convinced. I know it's real." Considering that he and I together sighted another cryptozoological species about ten years ago, it further reinforced his statement and my interest in the topic.

 

[Oroblanco]

Well not to pick a bone, I respectfully disagree on some points there.

On Bigfoot and other cryptids, it is easy to scoff until you see one. Same thing with UFOs. I have posted this before, but a couple of years ago we were camped in the Santa Rita mountains for a couple of weeks. When we were ready to head out for a re-stock of the food supply, it turned out that the vehicle battery had gone dead. I figured that someone would hopefully show up in a day or so, and we could get a jump start. The cell phones of course had no signal, as they generally don't work in the canyons. We normally pack along a couple extra days of food (not your first choice menu stuff but edible) and a spring was not far away so were not in any severe dangers. About dusk we started hearing a terrible moaning sound, that seemed to be coming from the canyon behind the ridge which was behind our camp. It sounded like a human, that had gotten hurt, so I scrambled to the top of the ridge to look down into the canyon. The moaning was still going on when I got to the top, and I hollered down, but got no response. I could see something down at the bottom of the cliff that looked as shiny as a mirror and egg shaped, about the size of a console stereo or TV. As it was fast getting dark, I decided to go out in the morning and find out what it was. In the morning after coffee, I hiked up the canyon to a spot where it was then easy to go down that canyon which ran behind the ridge. I found boot tracks that matched my own, exactly, traveling in the same direction. I followed the tracks to the very spot where that silvery "egg" thing was the previous evening, and the tracks ended there. The thing was gone too. No other tracks or any indication of anything having been there, except a spot with flatted down grass in an oval shape, about the size of a good sized bale of hay. No cattle, sheep or horses are or were in that area of the mountains.

A couple of Border Patrol vehicles came by a few days later (just about when I was ready to give up on someone coming by, and hike out for help) and kindly gave our vehicle a jump start. I asked them if they had any kind of device out there or someone patrolling there on foot, and they said they had no devices like that. So was it a landed UFO? I have no idea. I wish I had taken a camera to get a picture of it though. Oh and the boots, the reason that seemed odd to me is that my hiking boots are over 20 years old with a rather unusual tread design, and these boots have not been sold for years; <not a popular type> the tracks were not just identical pattern but identical size, and about the same stride as I take, and yet I had not set foot down that canyon before. I don't drink alcohol nor use any kind of mind-altering drugs, so am pretty sure I did not imagine seeing that silvery 'egg' thing nor the boot tracks that appeared. My wife and our dogs also heard the moaning sounds too. The thing about the tracks is that they came from up the canyon (leading into deeper wilderness) heading in a southerly direction, and the person would have had to pass in sight of our camp. We have several rather unfriendly dogs, and had anyone passed they would certainly have alerted us to it by barking. I had been up the canyon past the point where I first found those tracks too, and there had been no tracks prior to that day. Did I sleep-walk during the night? I don't sleep walk, so doubt that. Of course you don't have to believe a word I just wrote either.

Sorry for the long story but the point is if you spend enough time in the wild country, you are going to run into things that people like to scoff and even ridicule on the internet. They are not supposed to exist. The use of the Lost Dutchman's mine phrase is just common usage, it does not really mean the Dutchman was lost, and we now know that he was really German just that to an Anglo ear, when a German said his native country was Deutschland, it sounded like "Dutch" so all Germans became "Dutchmen". As another example, the lost Raspberry mine does not mean it is a mine full of raspberries, or a mine where someone lost their raspberries. it is just the way we name things makes it possible to interpret it in a false or even humorous way.

On the stone maps, yes their age and origins are highly controversial, yet even if they are modern (I think they are) it seems that no one cares to ask what these maps are copies of? Could they be copies of much older, Spanish or Jesuit maps? People have been making copies of maps since maps were invented, which does not make the maps useless. We debate these things to try to get at the truth, or at least the truth as we perceive it.

Good luck and good hunting amigos, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[sdcfia]

I too had an unexplainable "shiny thing" experience in SE Arizona, ca 1980+/-. Mine was in the Pedragosas, north of Douglas, south of the Chiricahuas. I was on a ridge top, walking a straight line staking mining claims (silver in limestone). About noon, we noticed an extremely bright object descending slowly to the canyon floor below us, perhaps a quarter mile away, and 200/300 feet lower than our position. It was small, but it was impossible to estimate its size. After it touched down, four or five spooked deer sprinted out of the canyon. The landing spot was way off our course, so we decided to investigate it later, as we knew we would be driving very near the site on the way back to our camp. About 15 minutes after the sighting, a flat black, totally unmarked jet slowly cruised through the canyon, very low and very slow. We checked the landing spot later that day, but found nothing. A couple days later, our line cut across the bottom of a flat, open grassy meadow not far (maybe a half mile) from the bright light landing spot. The cattle had eaten all the grass in the meadow down to the ground except in one area that was left untouched. It was a perfect circle, 21 feet in diameter. Woo woo. We mentioned all this to a Forest Service guy who took our names. I believed then, and still suspect, that we witnessed some sort of military object.

A couple weeks later, I got a call from MUFON and gave a lengthy report to their guy over the phone, and later on a paper form he mailed to me. Then I got another call from a newspaper reporter in Tucson. I told him the same story and expressed my belief that we had merely seen some sort of military exercise. The next Sunday paper had a large article about the "incident", with several direct "quotes" from me - thankfully, they didn't print my name. The whole story was made up and twisted to sound as if we had seen a flying saucer land. Lies, lies and more lies from that reporter.

 

[markmar]

I guess my answer must be a big NO, Starman has no sixth-seventh century Byzantine or Moorish document or record that mentions the exodus of the Calalus colonists.

Carthaginians were sailing in the Atlantic centuries before Christ, and yet even though all of the libraries of Carthage were destroyed or given to their former enemies, and almost NO writings from them survive today, we know about some of their voyages through the Greeks and Romans. Hence if there were really a large exodus of ships leaving the Byzantine empire, loaded with people heading to Arizona to found a colony, I expect that SOME mention of it would be found in the records of the Byzantines or their enemies. I don't know of any such reference. The fact that there is no reference, of course does not prove it could not happen, but it is not encouraging.

Oro

I found an article in the Orthodox Heritage magazine , Volume 2 , Issue 6 , which says about some Christian monks who came to North America in the 5th century AD . Maybe they had not relation with the Tucson artifacts but could be a pebble of this mosaic .
Read the article at http://www.ahepa.org/uploads/pdf/aa_54.pdf

 

[sdcfia]

Oro

I found an article in the Orthodox Heritage magazine , Volume 2 , Issue 6 , which says about some Christian monks who came to North America in the 5th century AD . Maybe they had not relation with the Tucson artifacts but could be a pebble of this mosaic .
Read the article at http://www.ahepa.org/uploads/pdf/aa_54.pdf

Ahepa.org is a fine organization. Unfortunately, that particular article was uploaded from Ancient American Magazine, which suffers from the stigma of "reliability issues". Their Utah perspective makes it tough to separate the wheat from the chaff. Unfortunately, and probably unfairly, this raises a guilt by association flag over the entire publication.

 

[markmar]

Ahepa.org is a fine organization. Unfortunately, that particular article was uploaded from Ancient American Magazine, which suffers from the stigma of "reliability issues". Their Utah perspective makes it tough to separate the wheat from the chaff. Unfortunately, and probably unfairly, this raises a guilt by association flag over the entire publication.

Of course , the only real evidences in this story would be the documents from Figuig .

 

[wrmickel1]

NP,

I would just assume you are joking......

Setting the Record Straight: Blue-Eyed Indians and Welsh Mandans

Good luck,

Joe

Hell Joe,I could of told you that! But know one would of believed me with out the link anyway. You All would of said do you got any facts to go with that. Nobody's word is worth kaka any more.

Wrmickel1