Legal or illegal

[Gramps43]

OK lads I got a big question fer ye. let me preface with this You Tube link; . Now the question, if as the in the video those people owned the property, and I am assuming the mineral rights went with the sale, would they still have to file a mineral claim in order to open the old mine on the property? The way I look at it if I own peoperty including mineral rights then it's nobodies business if I dig up dirt, wash it and pick out little yellow thingies in it.

My aging grey cells are quite curious about this.

Gramps

 

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[jeff of pa]

LOL If I want to dig in my yard for Minerals I'll dig.

just like the line in the 1927 novel The Treasure of the Sierra Madre,
and in blazing saddles "Badges ? we don't need no stinkin' badges";

mineral rights ? I don't need no stinkin' mineral rights

 

[dave wiseman]

This is in California,right?Most likely need different county and perhaps state permits.Good chance water and or air pollution issues involved.Imaginary or not.Perhaps Mr.Kuger who posts on these forums can throw a light on the issue.

 

[MarkC]

Well its like everything else in this country, "Government Regulations" you can own the land, but if you build anything on it your supposed to get a permit, not only that, it has to be built to certain codes, structurally, electrically, plumping, sewage, and even drainage.
Many places before you dig a hole for a fence post your supposed to contact ALL utility companies for that area.
In that mining operation if they are operating any heavy equipment they would probably have to be train and certified,
ect, ect,,,,,

Mark

 

[NeoTokyo]

While I am a firm believe in, if you own the land you OWN the land and all things in it, things do change when you go from simple prospecting to full out mining.

Just like MarkC said, Permits are required and regulations to make sure what you are doing does not harm anything outside of the property.
If you have big enough equipment then you might need licenses and follow OSHA rules, you should always follow common sense and OSHA rules though and if they have been doing it since the 1990's then I am sure that they have plenty of common sense, well enough to keep from getting hurt because $100,000+ in fines just because you didn't take care of what was needed, well that's a bonehead move.

In some area's you also have to pay for a survey to be done of the land to be sure that there are no rare or endangered flora or fauna living on it.
The storage company here in Redding (Nor Cal Storage) that I kept my RV at had to pay for a survey and a few things were found so they had to make habitat for those plants and animals on a part of their property instead of using it all for their business.

Thats just my guess on things but I bet its pretty darn close to being right, plus some.

 

[Hoser John]

Embedded videos and pop ups blocked so video worthless to me. The law doesn't care what you believe in. Just because you bought a property does NOT convey any rights to trees,water or minerals unless rights are in place already. If they are mine away, as you can legally mine underground with family members-NOT HIRED EMPLOYEES- and ain't nobodies business but your own. Once MNOSHA involved convalution begins,hence my creed-lean,mean,small and quiet and prosper as loose lips sink ships in near every case-Simply go to county recorders office and find out PRIOR to purchasing any property as to rights to what-John

 

[jeff of pa]

Embedded videos and pop ups blocked so video worthless to me. The law doesn't care what you believe in. Just because you bought a property does NOT convey any rights to trees,water or minerals unless rights are in place already. If they are mine away, as you can legally mine underground with family members-NOT HIRED EMPLOYEES- and ain't nobodies business but your own. Once MNOSHA involved convalution begins,hence my creed-lean,mean,small and quiet and prosper as loose lips sink ships in near every case-Simply go to county recorders office and find out PRIOR to purchasing any property as to rights to what-John

after you get the black page, click it,
where it says WATCH ON YouTube
it will automatically take you to Utube & open the vid

or copy & paste this in you tubes search.
Illegal Gold Mining Discovered

 

[Chips]

Yea I hear what you say. We also in NZ have those rules concerning plants and wild life, it even extends to insects. A mining company spent a fortune relocating some snails a few years ago. (I wont say what I think )
Over here we are only allowed to own the first 6" of soil, the rest is the governments. I guess that came from the gold rush days, but if it's small amounts at 10" I would be hard pressed to give it up . Oh a survey for other possible forgotten abandoned mine shafts might be a good idea haha.
The last thing you want,, is to be extracting with machinery and an old abandoned shaft collapses.
Mine shaft collapses aren't as common as earth quakes here, but thanks to the gold rush days of last century we get them .
The last collapse happened on the 3rd of May this year. On a road up the Coromandel peninsular. Might make for some good but careful detecting round that area I am thinking

 

[calisdad]

It depends on where you live. A simple grading permit could have avoided all the trouble. Where I live I can move 50 yards of soil without a permit. Where I used to live it was 3 yards. Sure you own the land and should be able to do what you want but we live in an ever increasingly crowded society and our neighbors have rights too and the laws were only drawn up because someone before us pushed the envelope just a bit too far. How much would it have cost them to just file a mining claim and proceed? A lot less than the $1,000,000 fine I bet.

Look at the picture in the link. This isn't just a guy with a backhoe and a wash plant: Rebel miner - Feature Story - Local Stories - May 31, 2012 - Sacramento News & Review
Now he's going to make it harder for those who come to prospect after him.

 

[NeoTokyo]

Ya know what they say, a few kill it for the rest of us.

 

[Chips]

Awe nuts !
He should have covered up his holes..

All detecting jokes aside, you are right, I can see that it is going to have flow on effects...

 

[kuger]

LOL If I want to dig in my yard for Minerals I'll dig.

just like the line in the 1927 novel The Treasure of the Sierra Madre,
and in blazing saddles "Badges ? we don't need no stinkin' badges";

mineral rights ? I don't need no stinkin' mineral rights

not out here..........because you own the surface rights doesnt mean you own the Mineral rights...and it is taken seriously
Had a situation back a few days before the dredge ban where I was working a private property,right on the line of a property with a house....the house owner decided he would let some other dredger come in on my hole.A call into the landowner,and he was HOT!!!!The dredgers decided to get lippy,as did the the home owner,he informed them that he owned the mineral rights under there home and if he wished would/could retrieve the minerals he owned....they abruptly backed off .As Calisdad said grading permits are at least needed,along with a reclamation plan and anything over 5 acres would institute a SWEPP plan through the RWB

 

[Fullpan]

Don't worry about the one minute video, John. It was along the line of "did these people really see Sasquatch?" One of the "Big Cut Mine"s neighbors said
hardesty had expensive equipment behind the locked gate, therefore reporter concluded that with price of gold at 1800/oz, the Beaureu(sp) of Mines and
Geology suspects illegal gold mining. The story(s) highlighted by calisdad above is a different matter. I remind everyone reading those stories to remember
that the authors are environmentalists. The enviro's have said we kill fish,frogs,change the course of streambeds, release toxic metals, etc. Why would
two enviro writers decide to tell nothing but the truth now?

 

[Hoser John]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAmen fullpan as when did a environutz EVER let the truth interfere with their insane rants...thanx-John

 

[calisdad]

Does being a journalist make you an environmentalist? I think sensationalist is more to the point. I mean if he had found a 4# nugget and had done everything right you really think they wouldn't print the story because there was no environmental damage. They are in the business to sell papers/stories. If the author writes only about environmental damage then hang that sign on him, but if not what are you accomplishing?

 

[ivan salis]

hahaha "own" the land what a joke -- you never really own it (the govt always "owns" the land it i s ithe govts non stop money source ( yearly land taxes) , oh you might "buy the land"from a bank or person and thus control access onto the land and some of it resources and use of it maybe but own it never -- build a house on it all you want -- do not pay the annual "rent" aka "the land taxes" and you will rapidly find out that you do not own squat --you just have a long term yearly lease of from the govt via the "taxes" you pay on it --if you really owned it , you would not pay taxes upon it and you could do as you pleased on it

 

[Nevada Coyote]

If you have to get permission to do anything on your private property, you don't own it, they (the government) does. Unfortunately that is the way it is. If you have to get a permit then you are admitting you are doing something illegal.
These are just a couple of thoughts. I'm not trying to cause an argument. And this are just a couple of reasons you should participate in your local government.

 

[Fullpan]

I've tried to research this story further, even contacted William Brewer, one of Hardesty's attorneys, and I think he is neither a total saint nor a total
sinner. But one thing is certain. If he didn't have BIG bucks to pay eleven lawyers, he would have been crushed to dust by now and probably working
as a bagger at the local Safeway.

 

[kuger]

If you have to get permission to do anything on your private property, you don't own it, they (the government) does. Unfortunately that is the way it is. If you have to get a permit then you are admitting you are doing something illegal.
These are just a couple of thoughts. I'm not trying to cause an argument. And this are just a couple of reasons you should participate in your local government.

Out here you can not build a pond,or any building (large chicken coop)on your land without a permit and they are pushing to pass a law that you cant even cut down a tree on your land

 

[Lanny in AB]

This thread is quite a read. It's amazing what's going on and it's amazing what's being done and what's not being done. Very interesting indeed--and not likely to be sorted out for some time yet. But, thanks for posting the video and the news story.

All the best,

Lanny