Legalities of hunting water ways (fresh water)... any creek/river hunters here?

[TreasurePirate69]

Living in Ohio I don't get the chance to hunt any "real" beaches so I am looking for local alternatives. My brother just moved to a new house that is about a 1/4 mile from the Olentangy river here in Columbus. It's bigger than a creek but in the heat of the summer there are many places that are only 6" deep that you could walk through. He and I like to kayak down the river and I've been itching to take a detector with me.

So the question is... what are the legalities of detecting a river like this? I realize that the banks are likely owned by the landowners whose properties butt up against the river. But what about detecting out in the middle? How about sand bars and rocky areas out in the middle of the water? Will the DNR have me arrested? Army Corps of Engineers? EPA? "Friends Of the Rare Protected Olentangy Oyster Plains" (otherwise known as "FORPOOP" )?

Any info or tips you can provide would be greatly appreciated. There are lots of very secluded areas of this river that are only about a foot deep in the dry season. I'm wondering what kind of trouble (both good and bad) I could get into.

I'm looking to start my research early so that I have plenty of time to work out my game plan for when the weather gets warm.

Thanks!

 

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[firemac]

tricky question! I own land here in Texas that has the Brazos river as my east boundry, I own the river bed under the river all of the way to the middle of the waterway, its funny- the state or water districs own the water and we own the mud! and, I believe not all creeks or rivers here are that way with the ownership aspect.

 

[bigscoop]

Takes "a ton" of research because there are so many different agencies with various regs/laws over this and that. It may also be just a creek to you and I but if it is classed as a navigable waterway then even more rules/regs come into play. And the term "navigable waterway" doesn't require that you can float boat, or even a canoe down the darn thing. "Over regulation" is going to be the biggest problem because most of the people in the field and general offices are not going to have all the answers for you because they simply don't know all the rules and various regulations themselves. A great place to start is with one of the "prospecting" organizations in your state, some of these guys being able to better advise you on many of these regs/laws and also direct you to the right places start looking and the right offices and people to start asking. "Do not let anyone tell you to not go through this process, regardless who they are or what they say their personal experience may be".....already too much of that going around these days.

 

[TreasurePirate69]

Thanks firemac and bigscoop. I guess things are not always as simple as they appear with respect to ownership and regulations. Of course, I was hoping for an easy answer but I guess that was just wishful thinking.

Do the majority of the freshwater hunters here stick with lakes where the DNR has already approved hunting or do some of you actually hunt streams and rivers too? I understand that there are a lot of metal detectorists out there that abide by the "don't ask don't tell" policy. But the very LAST thing I want to do is endanger myself and others by breaking the law.

*** EDIT *** And thanks for the tip on contacting the local prospecting groups. I wouldn't have thought of that but it makes perfect sense.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Who owns the stream and river? For whatever entity you see that owns it (topo maps and other types maps are usually color-coded with entities), simply look up on their website. Ie.: if it's a state owned stretch, well the state has their laws and regulations listed for public viewing. And keep in mind that state PARKS rules are not necessarily the same as other state lands rules. Because not all state land, is state park land. So if the FMDAC list of state-by-state has something dire-sounding about your state, bear in mind that that only applies to their parks, not other forms of state land. Same for cities, counties, etc.... Laws, muni-codes, etc.... must be listed SOMEWHERE for public viewing. If it doesn't say "no metal detectors", well then .... it must not be a prohibited activity.

As far as breaking laws, I am willing to bet that if we all thought about it long enough and hard enough, that you can't go detecting anywhere, without breaking a law. The moment you keep the item worth over $50 or $100, you've broken lost-&-found laws. Or the moment you keep anything you find on any public land, technically that belonged to the public entitity that owned the land. That's why any park, school, beach, campground, etc.... ALL have rules that forbid harvesting and collecting. Or the moment you dig (even though you'll cover it), someone can claim you're "defacing" "altering" etc.... if they wanted to. But the bottom line is, very few places ever make these remote connections, and no one really cares. But sure, if you ask long enough and hard enough, of enough desk-bound bureaucrats, you can always find yourself a "no". So for me, if there is nothing specifically saying "no metal detectors", I just go. I mean, you're looking for the boyscout ring your dad lost there when he was a kid, right?

 

[bigscoop]

If it doesn't say "no metal detectors", well then .... it must not be a prohibited activity.

Tom, again, not going to get into another long drawn out pointless debate with you, but the above is just plain FALSE! There are other uses of language that include the use of metal detectors even though they are not specifically mentioned. Claiming ignorance of that language is no excuse.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Tom, again, not going to get into another long drawn out pointless debate with you, but the above is just plain FALSE! There are other uses of language that include the use of metal detectors even though they are not specifically mentioned. Claiming ignorance of that language is no excuse.

Big-scoop, I totally agree. There is things that someone can morph to fit the question. You know, like verbage about defacement. Or things about lost & found laws. Or cultural heritage things. Or harvesting/collecting. The list goes on and on. You're right. And if you start down that road, you've lost already.

Take for example the dreaded "alterations", "vandalism", "defacement" and "digging" verbage. If you or I make the automatic equivalence that md'ing = destruction and defacment, then it seems to me that you might as well give up now. Like, if you make this automatic equivalence, then do you walk in to the public entity who has the beach or park or whatever, and say: "Hi. Can I please alter and deface the beach?" You know what they're answer would be, right? Of COURSE they'd say "no". Thus we use euphamisms like "metal detect", and try not to enter in to debates of semantics, or put ourselves at the whims of someone's personal images (that they might envision geeks with shovels).

So you're right, that other things can be morphed to apply. There's ALWAYS the possibility that someone won't like what you're doing. Heck, you can drive down the street and someone might flip you off because they didn't like your lane-change. There comes a point, where ........you can't assume that those morph things by necessity apply to you. Because if you do, let me save you some time, and let you know, that you've probably chosen the wrong hobby.

 

[bigscoop]

Tom.........the only road to take is the legal one, and there all are sorts of resources to allow you to locate the appropriate laws/regs, "before you hunt." Having to be informed of those laws and regs after the fact is just what this hobby doesn't need more of. "Morphing" into this or that is never an issue when your activities are within the boundaries of the law/regs. The actual morphing begins when you're activities are not being conducted within these boundaries, but rather when your activities are being conducted within the rules you created as a convenience to yourself instead.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

bigscoop, you say: ""Morphing" into this or that is never an issue when your activities are within the boundaries of the law/regs. ". I can gaurantee you, that if I followed you around for any length of time, saw where you hunted, and what you found, I bet that I can find laws that you are breaking. Oh sure, maybe no one cares. And sure, maybe you even got a "yes" from some authority wherever your at (d/t they didn't think it through fully enough with the right combination of buzzwords). But trust me, to SOMEONE'S opinion (if you asked enough of the right lawyers, with the right combination of buzzwords), you are breaking laws. If you metal detect anywhere, keep what you found, disturb the sand, soil, or earthworms, found something culturally significant, or that belonged to someone else, etc...

Now you might think, "nonsense, no one cares, and I leave the area as I found, it, and no one really applies the "harvesting" verbage to think it's for md'ing, etc... etc.... And my reply to that is: EXACTLY MY POINT!! There comes a point when, YES, no one cares. And thus, no, I do not go out of my way to worry that someone might morph something else to apply to me. If it doesn't specifically say "no detecting", then I am not going to wonder if all the other things might be applied to me, if I asked enough busy-bodies, and worried long enough.

 

[seeker41]

im from columbus and i know the area your taking about! without getting technical, the basic rule used to be that .....you have access and a right to any area in the waterway. lets say you launch at a public boatramp travel past an old looking house and want to detect the water right in front of the house? you are ok to do so as long as you are in the water! some homeowners may not like it and might even claim your on their land, that's when you would need a copy of the states/localities laws that you could pull out and show the landowner.
research riparian rights.
of course this could get very technical if you make it and you could go crazy overthinking it. the odnr would be your main enemy or friend in this research.
chuck.

 

[lookindown]

Tom is right, almost every detecting scenario can be considered illegal if you look at it hard enough. We are supposed to turn in the gold rings we find in Florida.

 

[dimedigger]

just do it. if you get caught and fined at least you'll know what agency is in charge

 

[Tom_in_CA]

"caught" ?

just do it. if you get caught and fined at least you'll know what agency is in charge

What's there to be "caught" for? Doesn't that merely presume the point, to begin with, that something being done ..... is wrong? So if there's nothing that says "no metal detectors", then ..... what can someone be "caught" for?

 

[seeker41]

What's there to be "caught" for? Doesn't that merely presume the point, to begin with, that something being done ..... is wrong? So if there's nothing that says "no metal detectors", then ..... what can someone be "caught" for?

go metal detecting in a state park, find a spot where there are no signs saying "no metal detecting" and enter there. get caught and see what happens! it wont be pretty!!!
chuck.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

go metal detecting in a state park, find a spot where there are no signs saying "no metal detecting" and enter there. get caught and see what happens! it wont be pretty!!!
chuck.

chuck, then in the case you cite (in certain state parks where there is a written rule that says "no metal detecting"), then that is outside the point of this. Then in THAT case, there IS a rule. Who is suggesting to violate that? When I said that if there's nothing saying "no metal detectors", that didn't mean only posted signs. Because you're right, the rule saying such a thing can be on-the-books. And as such, you or I can look them up. Just like laws forbidding nudity need-not-be on a sign at the park or river entrance. Sure. If you thought the term "written" meant specifically a "sign", then no. To say "written..." can mean written in the law, either on the books, or on a sign.

And if someone looks up the rules in his city, or county, or state, and there's nothing there saying "no metal detectors", then THAT'S what I'm talking about. Your example of a state park then is not what this is talking about. This is talking about for when there IS no such specific rule.

 

[bigscoop]

Tom, you're an advocate of "don't ask" and that is just plan bad for the hobby. Period! The original poster had/has no idea what the laws are, which is why he was asking by creating this thread. And your answer to him, "Hey, if it's not posted, or the proper rules/regs are not easily found, then it must be ok." Are you serious with this crap? I have not read one word from you directing him to a proper source, or a possible helpful source. This is the scope of his inquiry, because as a responsible hobbyist, he wants to know what the laws/regs are before he acts. "Don't ask" obviously wasn't/isn't the type direction or advice he's seeking. Just a simple, "Hey, can't help you out in Ohio, sorry" will suffice if you have no idea where he can begin looking for accurate information in regards to his inquiry. How bout we just try to help the guy find the information he's looking for.

 

[TreasurePirate69]

Tom, you are wasting your breath with me and I wish you would refrain from turning my thread into yet another one of your soap boxes on not asking for permission. You have your beliefs and we have ours. Enough said.

Seeker41 and bigscoop: I truly appreciate the info. I'll definitely be following up on it.

 

[seeker41]

tom......sounds like your an advocate of "id rather beg forgiveness than ask for permission". if that is the case then you could be doing serious damage to my and others ability to get permission to detect sites, and will eventually get us banned alltogether.


treasurepirate.........the majority of hunters are lazy, as are all humans! any thing you do that is a step further than the competition.....research, walk further, hunt longer..etc: will pay off.

chuck.

 

[lookindown]

Tom, everyones attitude is the reason were getting banned from detecting everywhere. Most people dont understand what you are talking about.

 

[TreasurePirate69]

Lookindown... We understand Tom completely. We also disagree with him. Frankly, you can't come into this forum without tripping over one of his soap boxes since he leaves them laying around in virtually everyone else's threads but his own. It is tiresome. We all have our opinions and you guys are welcome to yours. Why can't we be welcome to ours?