Lincoln City OR, Cascade head Pirate treasure, Carnelian Crystal Skull

LincolnCityFinder

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Dec 28, 2021
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Hello, this is my first post here and well long overdue as I have had this artifact for sometime but has been somewhat of a mystery to me, Years ago I tried to get more information about it and failed, set it aside and going to try again today. Here is the story starting in the late 80's- early 90's

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At Cascade head in Lincoln City Oregon, there is a cave (well it has since collapsed in since my childhood) which was fabled to me as a pirate cave. What fun it was to go to our favorite beach every year and also have the mystery of pirates. On low tides we could walk across the rocks to get to it. Along with looking at sea life we also picked up agates along the beach and collected them and put them in a jar.

We eventually moved away from Oregon and several years later I found the jar and started to go through them and inspect all the cool agates and other tid bits we found. I started to go through them and well to my astonishment one was quite different. It was not so rough and odd shaped, it was smooth, and symmetrical, I then identified it as a crude skull shape that looked to be cut near the jaw and polished to form the bulb of the back of the head! I began to look closely at its swirls and to even more astonishment saw depictions of pirates! They have since faded a little but I think are still showing. I have no idea what technique could have done this. and I think it is more likely carnelian than agate. Its ironic as a kid dreaming of finding treasure there and then many years later discovering we did.

My theory is that this was a form of pirate art that they would create in off times and use for trading. I have never seen anything like it. The legend goes of a 8ft African skeleton found and native legends of a winged canoe. I wonder if it could have also been part of Sir Francis Drakes expedition or just a west coast pirate, I really do not know much about all that happened there. https://beachconnection.net/news/skelet021914_809.php

So here it is! Starting with the right cheek, We have the captain, with a long brimmed had and long black beard. it seems the scratch lines up with the hat so it might be a clue how this process was done but its not like that on every depiction. Behind him is a Ghost with long beard and dreads. The 3 circles that were his eyes and mouth had disintegrated sinceI first discovered it but I think enough remains. It could have been picked up anywhere on the beach about a mile from the site or in the cove where the cave once was. unfortunately this may have been in the sea water eroding for a couple hundred years and in the hands of a know nothing teenager.

1640723207938.png


a better view of the captain
1640723744088.png


The Left Cheek, Much of it I could never tell what it was, but I drew on the face from what I first saw discovering this as a teenager, the face was blue, and the man had a white beard, he was holding a torch, and in the back ground another arm was reaching up to light his torch with it. all the stuff to the right I could never tell what it was.


1640723545660.png


a closer view of the 2 torches
1640723689009.png


the back view, at first I could not tell what it was, now its like the most identifiable evil looking skull n crossbones with very pointy cheeks and triangular eyes and double pointed chin.

1640723828978.png


Top view, to show the symmetrical shape, and the bulge of the back part of the skull, narrowing to the face
1640723939583.png


3/4 view, and back lit to show possibly how it was dyed or painted.
1640724012421.png


I guess I forgot to take pics of the bottom, but there is not much to look at other than a crude jaw line, with a few scratches on it. I may be able to get those later if interest abounds to show how it might have been worked.


I want to know what it may be worth, and how does one go about selling something like this?

Thanks for the interest!
 

Treasure_Hunter

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Welcome toTreasureNet.

I am sorry but the shapes you are seeing are caused by Pareidolias, not man-made. It is your imagination that is seeing the shapes you think are man made.

Pareidolia is the tendency for perception to impose a meaningful interpretation on a nebulous stimulus, usually visual, so that one sees an object, pattern, or meaning where there is none. Common examples are perceived images of animals, faces, or objects in cloud formations, seeing faces in inanimate objects.


Here is museum in Japan with some.
f8sv4977jvi51.jpg


Another famous one from the Moon, with pictures from different times

Martian_face_viking_cropped.jpg
Viking_moc_face_20m.gif


Samural Crab
Heikegani.jpg



More pareidolia rocks

 

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LincolnCityFinder

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Dec 28, 2021
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I think you are wrong in this case but thank you for your thoughts.

Keep in mind these pictures were taken years after I first discovered them and have faded and deteriorated.
 

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Treasure_Hunter

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I think you are wrong in this case but thank you for your thoughts.

Keep in mind these pictures were taken years after I first discovered them and have faded and deteriorated.
Sorry, fading hasn't anything to do with it, it is still a case of Pareidolia, it is your imagination that sees the pictures.

Good luck hunting...
 

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LincolnCityFinder

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On what basis do you declare that without even seeing or holding it? Its a very limited perspective, these images are all on the outside of the stone, within its totally clear without color inclusions, the agates in the area are all banded within and none of them were anything like this shape. The colors and shapes are not easily seen in these pictures. I would not be sharing this if I thought it was just my imagination. There is something to be learned here and scoffing at it just hinders that process. Let us consider that agates (I am not sure it is carnelian) and some stones can by dyed, so a thick dye like paint could have been applied to get some localized color that is now dispersed. Thank you for your opinion.
 

releventchair

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Reads like a fun place to visit back then. Congrats on the experiences there!

IF you are willing to sacrifice a similar piece from your jar...Study scrimshaw.
Make yourself some tools that apply to the art and test them on your sacrificial stone.
You'll find how using white paint or similar and how to apply patterns goes. Or you can simply freehand. And what material suits such work. There was a reason that in sailing days ivory and whale teeth ,bone , was a desired medium. And it's availability factored.
Lines vs curves . Corners. How to secure the piece being worked. Tool angle. You'll see...

Ink was commonly encountered. Rubbed on after graving. Lamp or candle soot could be mixed with grease or oil too. Or for patterning (fitting a gun barrel to a stock by sooting barrel at a contact point to leave soot on wood to be removed for example ) , used as is.

After you finish a piece , ask yourself , would you let it end up in a beach cobble pile?
And is the medium/material suited to engraving?
 

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LincolnCityFinder

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Dec 28, 2021
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Reads like a fun place to visit back then. Congrats on the experiences there!

IF you are willing to sacrifice a similar piece from your jar...Study scrimshaw.
Make yourself some tools that apply to the art and test them on your sacrificial stone.
You'll find how using white paint or similar and how to apply patterns goes. Or you can simply freehand. And what material suits such work. There was a reason that in sailing days ivory and whale teeth ,bone , was a desired medium. And it's availability factored.
Lines vs curves . Corners. How to secure the piece being worked. Tool angle. You'll see...

Ink was commonly encountered. Rubbed on after graving. Lamp or candle soot could be mixed with grease or oil too. Or for patterning (fitting a gun barrel to a stock by sooting barrel at a contact point to leave soot on wood to be removed for example ) , used as is.

After you finish a piece , ask yourself , would you let it end up in a beach cobble pile?
And is the medium/material suited to engraving?

Unfortunately the rest of them were lost in a move, I saved this from the jar in my collection, and when my parents moved I do not know what happened to the rest of them.

I think this could have been done in a similar fashion to scrimshaw but not quite the same. Its not like shaping of stone by polishing them on a medium was unknown, these guys were all about jewels and treasure, so taking the time on a long voyage just sitting there polishing seems plausible. Scraping away areas for paint or dye to get in and adhere to. Turning a low value piece of agate or carnelian into a valuable trade item with significance.

I do not think this piece wound up in the seas by a deliberate occurence. There are any number of ways that could have happened.
 

Treasure_Hunter

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On what basis do you declare that without even seeing or holding it? Its a very limited perspective, these images are all on the outside of the stone, within its totally clear without color inclusions, the agates in the area are all banded within and none of them were anything like this shape. The colors and shapes are not easily seen in these pictures. I would not be sharing this if I thought it was just my imagination. There is something to be learned here and scoffing at it just hinders that process. Let us consider that agates (I am not sure it is carnelian) and some stones can by dyed, so a thick dye like paint could have been applied to get some localized color that is now dispersed. Thank you for your opinion.
You drew the pictures on the rocks using your imagination of what you think is there.
 

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LincolnCityFinder

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I did that to help you see what is there and what once was better seen. I also provided the stock photos and can see its more than a drawing, and its all on the surface. Stones with swirls would have those images swirled within. the stone itself is relatively pure minus a few cracks. but no coloring inside
 

Treasure_Hunter

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I did that to help you see what is there and what once was better seen. I also provided the stock photos and can see its more than a drawing, and its all on the surface. Stones with swirls would have those images swirled within. the stone itself is relatively pure minus a few cracks. but no coloring inside
Sorry, the stock photos do not show what your drawings show, stock photos show natural swirls and impurities in the stone caused by mother nature..

Cheese sandwich, image is natural, not man made.

q3libkxz1mkz.jpg


Below, some people see a skull in the center picture, some people see mother and children on right, yet the picture on the left is the original picture and it is still a natural random grouping of stalagmites
Pareidolia-Apophenia.sm.jpg



Natural or made by man?
Screen-Shot-2013-06-09-at-7.43.51-PM.jpg
 

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releventchair

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Unfortunately the rest of them were lost in a move, I saved this from the jar in my collection, and when my parents moved I do not know what happened to the rest of them.

I think this could have been done in a similar fashion to scrimshaw but not quite the same. Its not like shaping of stone by polishing them on a medium was unknown, these guys were all about jewels and treasure, so taking the time on a long voyage just sitting there polishing seems plausible. Scraping away areas for paint or dye to get in and adhere to. Turning a low value piece of agate or carnelian into a valuable trade item with significance.

I do not think this piece wound up in the seas by a deliberate occurence. There are any number of ways that could have happened.
For me the "scraping away" is my point. (point/tool/pun intended).
A cutting tool needs to be harder than the material being cut. Or should be for any prolonged attempt. Scoring hard stone in intricate patterns accurately takes not only the right tool, but hand finger skill. So what tool we talking?

Shaping and polishing are different subjects , tools, methods. processes...
A hole bored in a rock with flowing water running over it just right can tumble what is placed in it enough to make a round marble out of an oblong stone eventually. ( Saves on the hands , and labor time. )
I'm not looking for how your piece was smoothed from here. IF it was on shore , it may have tumbled long. Beyond that , I don't know.
 

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In psychology we have the Rorschach test or RANDOM ink blot test and ask patients what they see in the random array of blots. The patients response reveals something about them. In your case, it seems natural that you would see a pirate or pirate items like skull and cross-bones given your history of the pirate cave. Still, interesting history and story.
 

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LincolnCityFinder

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I need to find an expert and show this in person.... people who are inquisitive and open and expertise in these areas.

I can tell the difference then and now between imagination and workmanship. The images are much deteriorated unfortunately. but the form still is there.

Some things you are not considering are that the images are on the surface and do not match any inclusions or banding of the interior. whats on the surface is not a cross section of what is in the interior of it. How does that happen naturally?

I have taken some pretty bad photos as I am not good at photography and using a cheap flip phone. to show the underside and top and how vastly different they are. from the top you can see it is perfectly polished. symmetrical and has the bulbous lobe for the back of the skull, and sides into the nose brow. Of course this is crude and representational as it is VERY difficult to work hard stone like this. but not impossible. The undercut though is not as polished. and has different textures showing how much harder it would have been to work that part since it is a inward angle. If it were ocean tumbled round (which none of the others found in this area were remotely as uniformly shaped and were much more organic) then the whole stone should be as well.




here is the top,
IMG_2022-04-02_04-23-25.jpeg
IMG_2022-04-02_04-21-02.jpeg


now the side profile to make a jaw line
IMG_2022-04-02_04-23-41.jpeg
IMG_2022-04-02_04-20-04.jpeg


my thump partially covers this but is the other side and again symetrical jaw line on the side.
IMG_2022-04-02_04-23-08.jpeg


now finally the bottom. there is separation from the back cranial bulb and the lower jaw line and shelf of the chin
IMG_2022-04-02_04-22-45.jpeg


the glare actually helps show the inward angles,
IMG_2022-04-02_04-22-53.jpeg


without as much glare.
IMG_2022-04-02_04-22-38.jpeg




in psychology also consider when people see something they do not understand make their own basic assumptions and when something goes outside of their knowledge have bias to belittle and dismiss such evidence.

I did not go out looking for this, I did not discover it until years later. I was a teenager and handled it poorly, and do not know who to turn to for expertise.

So I am looking for suggestions of how and who to go to for such artifacts.

Thank you

Jacob
 

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LincolnCityFinder

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What would it take to think it was worked? I know the underside cuts are really hard to see but it like small pressure flakes were made then abraded the ridges away. there are some concave surfaces and parallel lining shown. Interestingly there is lore of them with indigenous cultures that could have taught them this.

The outside form could have been done by polishing in on an abrasive stone. This is how indigenous cultures made greenstone axe heads. Slightly softer but just need different materials to work with.
90d0e4fbe5264bcce7f4f1985ffdfbf7.jpg




Thank you for that link hopefully it can get the attention to really determine whether or not its real. I feel a responsibility to do know for sure rather than let this thing fall away into obsurity and the story and location and item lost.
 

crashbandicoot

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In psychology we have the Rorschach test or RANDOM ink blot test and ask patients what they see in the random array of blots. The patients response reveals something about them. In your case, it seems natural that you would see a pirate or pirate items like skull and cross-bones given your history of the pirate cave. Still, interesting history and story.
I had the Rorschach test administered to me in the Marines,I totally spoofed the guy since I don,t like anyone messing with my mind.He said it showed I was a smart arse. Apropos of nothing!
 

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LincolnCityFinder

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Actually when I first discovered the images I could not tell what the back part was, I first noticed the captain and the ghost figure, but the other side of the blue man, which once was so clear and detailed sealed it being more than just me thinking I am crazy. A friend of mine told me he saw a skull n crossbones there... I could still not see it, but now with the back light its one of the clearest indications these are painted images that dyed into the material.

it has been by own self doubt that the % chance of me finding something like this that has in part taken me so long to bring closure to it.... also to find serious people who can do test to find out factual information.
 

traveller777

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I had the Rorschach test administered to me in the Marines,I totally spoofed the guy since I don,t like anyone messing with my mind.He said it showed I was a smart arse. Apropos of nothing!
Crash, this thread is the perfect example of the L. C. Baker thread.
 

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