livery button research find!

shaun7

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May 20, 2008
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i spent the day yesterday cleaning the back of a livery button i found a few weeks ago. I could see letters on it so i did it out of boredom!

Anyway, i found the makers and the date as it has their name and address on the back of the button :D

Thought i'd try and find out what the shop is today and found this :o



Firman & Sons, London, England
"In order to obtain military supplies and equipment from Europe the Confederate States Navy sent Commander James D. Bulloch, C.S.N. to England early in the war and his venture was highly successful. One of his main contacts along this line was the old and established house of military outfitters, Firman & Sons, 153 Strand and 12 Conduit Street, London, whose name and address is found stamped upon the backs of the very rare Confederate navy buttons and also etched on the ricasso of a few of the very rare Confederate naval officer's swords. The design of these closely follow those described under Courtney & Tennant and it is probably that Robert Mole & Sons made the weapons for both. Another type sword bearing Firman's name and with Confederate markings recently turned up. Generally it follows the two branched iron guarded British light cavalry sabre of 1822 from which our own dragoon model 1833 was copied. The obverse of the 32 1/2" etched blade contains, as a portion of its decoration, a Stars and Bars flag superimposed over an anchor (identical to the regulation Confederate naval officer's sword)....The iron guard precludes the sword from being navy. The anchor indicates it was not for the army or the cavalry, but related to sea service. This leaves only the marines. We assume the "CM" on the blade back strands for "Confederate Marines". To somewhat strengthen this assumption is an account of the C.S.S. Atlanta, June 17,1863, Port Royal, S.C. "James Thurston (one of the prisoners), 1st Lieutenant, C.S. Marine Corps has a sword and a in one it is, with equipment's, made by Firman & Sons, 153 Strand and 13 Conduit Sts., London...."

William Albaugh, A Photographic Supplement to Confederate Swords


didn't know we got involved!

here's the button anyway :-\
 

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RPG

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Jan 10, 2009
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Nice button shaun7, and a nice history lesson. Glad to hear you guys helped us good ole southern boys out. :wink:
Randy
 

Iron Patch

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The more you read the more you will find connections in history like this.

Now if the livery button only had CSN at the bottom! (and probably his name too) It would be something else! :D
 

ivan salis

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the british were the souths main backers of military supplies during the war * as well as buttons and medicences and many other supplies carried in from nassau on blockade runners .
 

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shaun7

shaun7

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i know the button isn't anything special at all, but i did find that connection interesting!
 

CRUSADER

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shaun7 said:
i know the button isn't anything special at all, but i did find that connection interesting!

I wouldn't say 'special' either but I count them as a 'good' button which takes hours to find. :thumbsup: Not only that its in great condition
 

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shaun7

shaun7

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CRUSADER said:
shaun7 said:
i know the button isn't anything special at all, but i did find that connection interesting!

I wouldn't say 'special' either but I count them as a 'good' button which takes hours to find. :thumbsup: Not only that its in great condition



i told you! what about the back that was full of stones 8)
 

CRUSADER

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shaun7 said:
CRUSADER said:
shaun7 said:
i know the button isn't anything special at all, but i did find that connection interesting!

I wouldn't say 'special' either but I count them as a 'good' button which takes hours to find. :thumbsup: Not only that its in great condition



i told you! what about the back that was full of stones 8)

Yeap, you went the extra mile, I would have left it with a clean front. If I cleaned all my buttons to your standard I would have to pack in detecting :D
 

Steve_UK

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You got me at it now Shaun... just cleaned up a button I found a few weeks back, says "Jeffries Leamington" on it.

Don't suppose you or Cru have any info on it? Can't find a thing on the net. ???

By the way... I haven't cleaned it up anywhere near your standard.... :icon_jokercolor:
 

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shaun7

shaun7

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CRUSADER said:
shaun7 said:
CRUSADER said:
shaun7 said:
i know the button isn't anything special at all, but i did find that connection interesting!

I wouldn't say 'special' either but I count them as a 'good' button which takes hours to find. :thumbsup: Not only that its in great condition



i told you! what about the back that was full of stones 8)

Yeap, you went the extra mile, I would have left it with a clean front. If I cleaned all my buttons to your standard I would have to pack in detecting :D



i've been bored, that was the highlight of my week :D
 

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shaun7

shaun7

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Steve_UK said:
You got me at it now Shaun... just cleaned up a button I found a few weeks back, says "Jeffries Leamington" on it.

Don't suppose you or Cru have any info on it? Can't find a thing on the net. ???

By the way... I haven't cleaned it up anywhere near your standard.... :icon_jokercolor:



sorry steve, i'm no expert!

what helped me was the fact that the company name and address is on it :D
 

Steve_UK

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shaun7 said:
Steve_UK said:
You got me at it now Shaun... just cleaned up a button I found a few weeks back, says "Jeffries Leamington" on it.

Don't suppose you or Cru have any info on it? Can't find a thing on the net. ???

By the way... I haven't cleaned it up anywhere near your standard.... :icon_jokercolor:





sorry steve, i'm no expert!

what helped me was the fact that the company name and address is on it :D

No problem... My gut feeling tells me early 1900's, but was just curious if anyone knew more.
 

CRUSADER

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Steve_UK said:
shaun7 said:
Steve_UK said:
You got me at it now Shaun... just cleaned up a button I found a few weeks back, says "Jeffries Leamington" on it.

Don't suppose you or Cru have any info on it? Can't find a thing on the net. ???

By the way... I haven't cleaned it up anywhere near your standard.... :icon_jokercolor:





sorry steve, i'm no expert!

what helped me was the fact that the company name and address is on it :D

No problem... My gut feeling tells me early 1900's, but was just curious if anyone knew more.

I don't know anymore other than to agree with your gut :D
 

Steve_UK

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CRUSADER said:
Steve_UK said:
shaun7 said:
Steve_UK said:
You got me at it now Shaun... just cleaned up a button I found a few weeks back, says "Jeffries Leamington" on it.

Don't suppose you or Cru have any info on it? Can't find a thing on the net. ???

By the way... I haven't cleaned it up anywhere near your standard.... :icon_jokercolor:






sorry steve, i'm no expert!

what helped me was the fact that the company name and address is on it :D

No problem... My gut feeling tells me early 1900's, but was just curious if anyone knew more.

I don't know anymore other than to agree with your gut :D


The less spoken about my gut.. the better. :icon_jokercolor:
 

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shaun7

shaun7

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May 20, 2008
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Steve_UK said:
CRUSADER said:
Steve_UK said:
shaun7 said:
Steve_UK said:
You got me at it now Shaun... just cleaned up a button I found a few weeks back, says "Jeffries Leamington" on it.

Don't suppose you or Cru have any info on it? Can't find a thing on the net. ???

By the way... I haven't cleaned it up anywhere near your standard.... :icon_jokercolor:






sorry steve, i'm no expert!

what helped me was the fact that the company name and address is on it :D

No problem... My gut feeling tells me early 1900's, but was just curious if anyone knew more.

I don't know anymore other than to agree with your gut :D


The less spoken about my gut.. the better. :icon_jokercolor:



funny enough, "silence of the lambs" is on telly :-\
 

Steve_UK

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Dec 5, 2007
202
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shaun7 said:
Steve_UK said:
CRUSADER said:
Steve_UK said:
shaun7 said:
Steve_UK said:
You got me at it now Shaun... just cleaned up a button I found a few weeks back, says "Jeffries Leamington" on it.

Don't suppose you or Cru have any info on it? Can't find a thing on the net. ???

By the way... I haven't cleaned it up anywhere near your standard.... :icon_jokercolor:






sorry steve, i'm no expert!

what helped me was the fact that the company name and address is on it :D

No problem... My gut feeling tells me early 1900's, but was just curious if anyone knew more.

I don't know anymore other than to agree with your gut :D


The less spoken about my gut.. the better. :icon_jokercolor:



funny enough, "silence of the lambs" is on telly :-\

" Can you hear them, Clarice.......?" :evil7:
 

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shaun7

shaun7

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May 20, 2008
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Steve_UK said:
shaun7 said:
Steve_UK said:
CRUSADER said:
Steve_UK said:
shaun7 said:
Steve_UK said:
You got me at it now Shaun... just cleaned up a button I found a few weeks back, says "Jeffries Leamington" on it.

Don't suppose you or Cru have any info on it? Can't find a thing on the net. ???

By the way... I haven't cleaned it up anywhere near your standard.... :icon_jokercolor:






sorry steve, i'm no expert!

what helped me was the fact that the company name and address is on it :D

No problem... My gut feeling tells me early 1900's, but was just curious if anyone knew more.

I don't know anymore other than to agree with your gut :D


The less spoken about my gut.. the better. :icon_jokercolor:



funny enough, "silence of the lambs" is on telly :-\

" Can you hear them, Clarice.......?" :evil7:


i will always know you as "scary steve" after that :o :D
 

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