livery button research find!

shaun7

Gold Member
May 20, 2008
6,193
64
uk
Detector(s) used
tesoro eldorado, tesoro lobo,goldmaxx xp
i spent the day yesterday cleaning the back of a livery button i found a few weeks ago. I could see letters on it so i did it out of boredom!

Anyway, i found the makers and the date as it has their name and address on the back of the button :D

Thought i'd try and find out what the shop is today and found this :o



Firman & Sons, London, England
"In order to obtain military supplies and equipment from Europe the Confederate States Navy sent Commander James D. Bulloch, C.S.N. to England early in the war and his venture was highly successful. One of his main contacts along this line was the old and established house of military outfitters, Firman & Sons, 153 Strand and 12 Conduit Street, London, whose name and address is found stamped upon the backs of the very rare Confederate navy buttons and also etched on the ricasso of a few of the very rare Confederate naval officer's swords. The design of these closely follow those described under Courtney & Tennant and it is probably that Robert Mole & Sons made the weapons for both. Another type sword bearing Firman's name and with Confederate markings recently turned up. Generally it follows the two branched iron guarded British light cavalry sabre of 1822 from which our own dragoon model 1833 was copied. The obverse of the 32 1/2" etched blade contains, as a portion of its decoration, a Stars and Bars flag superimposed over an anchor (identical to the regulation Confederate naval officer's sword)....The iron guard precludes the sword from being navy. The anchor indicates it was not for the army or the cavalry, but related to sea service. This leaves only the marines. We assume the "CM" on the blade back strands for "Confederate Marines". To somewhat strengthen this assumption is an account of the C.S.S. Atlanta, June 17,1863, Port Royal, S.C. "James Thurston (one of the prisoners), 1st Lieutenant, C.S. Marine Corps has a sword and a in one it is, with equipment's, made by Firman & Sons, 153 Strand and 13 Conduit Sts., London...."

William Albaugh, A Photographic Supplement to Confederate Swords


didn't know we got involved!

here's the button anyway :-\
 

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STH69

Bronze Member
Feb 17, 2009
1,669
4
Detector(s) used
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Great write up!
 

OP
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shaun7

shaun7

Gold Member
May 20, 2008
6,193
64
uk
Detector(s) used
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Steve_UK said:
You got me at it now Shaun... just cleaned up a button I found a few weeks back, says "Jeffries Leamington" on it.

Don't suppose you or Cru have any info on it? Can't find a thing on the net. ???

By the way... I haven't cleaned it up anywhere near your standard.... :icon_jokercolor:



found this list from 1891 :-\64,2 Ct 1 Hse Richard St,1,John Wooldridge,Head,M,43,,Oliver Man Irn/steel Stampr,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Ernest E Wooldridge,Son,S,15,,Helpr Oliverman Iron/steel St,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Ada Wooldridge,Dau,S,,12,,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Minnie Wooldridge,Dau,,,6,,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Eliza Davis,Lodger,W,,41,Char Woman,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Agnes Davis,Lodger,,,6,,,\- Unknown,,
,2 Ct 2 Hse Richard St,u,,,,,,,, ,,
65,2 Ct 3 Hse Richard St,1,John S Hill,Head,M,49,,Edge Took Maker,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Selina Hill,Wife,M,,48,,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,George Hill,Son,S,26,,Brass Worker,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Mary Hill,Dau,S,,16,Warehse Girl,Employed,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Amelia Hill,Dau,S,,15,Paper Box Maker,Employed,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Florence Hill,Dau,S,,11,,,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Clara Hill,Dau,,,7,,,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Marian Hill,Dau,,,4,,,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Beatrice Hill,Dau,,,2,,,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Samuel Hill,Son,S,18,,Stamper,Employed,Aston Staffordshire,,
66,2 Ct 4 Hse Richard St,1,Bartley Welch,Head,M,70,,Labourer,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Elizabeth Welch,Wife,M,,50,,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
67,2 Ct 6 Hse Richard St,1,Selina Jefferies,Head,W,,38,Button Maker,Employed,\- Co. Galway,,
,,,John R Jefferies,Son,S,7,,,,\- Warwickshire,,
,,,Henry Jefferies,Son,S,9,,,,\- Warwickshire,,
,,,Selina Lydon,Mother,M,,65,,,\- Co. Galway,,
,,,Patrick Lydon,Father,M,66,,Labourer,Employed,\- Co. Galway,,
,2 Ct 5 Hse Richard St,u,,,,,,,, ,,
,2 Ct 7 Hse Richard St,u,,,,,,,, ,,
70,2 Ct 8 Hse Richard St,1,George Smith,Head,M,44,,Gun Worker,Employed,Not Known Unknown,,
,,,Henry Smith,Son,S,16,,Scale Maker,Employed,\- England,,
,,,John Smith,Son,S,13,,,,\- England,,
,,,William Smith,Son,S,9,,,,\- England,,
 

Steve_UK

Full Member
Dec 5, 2007
202
0
Midlands
Detector(s) used
Garrett Ace250
Looks likely... thanks for that.

Sorry for late reply, been vegetating in front of the TV! :thumbsup:
 

CRUSADER

Gold Member
May 25, 2007
40,881
45,592
ENGLAND
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🏆 Honorable Mentions:
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Detector(s) used
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Primary Interest:
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Steve_UK said:
Looks likely... thanks for that.

Sorry for late reply, been vegetating in front of the TV! :thumbsup:

what did you find today veg?
 

Steve_UK

Full Member
Dec 5, 2007
202
0
Midlands
Detector(s) used
Garrett Ace250
CRUSADER said:
Steve_UK said:
Looks likely... thanks for that.

Sorry for late reply, been vegetating in front of the TV! :thumbsup:

what did you find today veg?

Nope.. rain.. and plenty of it! It's hardly stopped here all day.

Had to content myself doing some research... which was fun anyhow. :thumbsup:
 

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shaun7

shaun7

Gold Member
May 20, 2008
6,193
64
uk
Detector(s) used
tesoro eldorado, tesoro lobo,goldmaxx xp
CRUSADER said:
Steve_UK said:
Looks likely... thanks for that.

Sorry for late reply, been vegetating in front of the TV! :thumbsup:

what did you find today veg?



thats not a nice thing to call steve :o :D
 

OP
OP
shaun7

shaun7

Gold Member
May 20, 2008
6,193
64
uk
Detector(s) used
tesoro eldorado, tesoro lobo,goldmaxx xp
Steve_UK said:
shaun7 said:
CRUSADER said:
Steve_UK said:
Looks likely... thanks for that.

Sorry for late reply, been vegetating in front of the TV! :thumbsup:

what did you find today veg?



thats not a nice thing to call steve :o :D

I take it all with a smile.....



:D i thought cru was talking to me at first in response to what i said in his todays post :D
 

CRUSADER

Gold Member
May 25, 2007
40,881
45,592
ENGLAND
🥇 Banner finds
27
🏆 Honorable Mentions:
1
Detector(s) used
XP Deus II v0.6 with 11" Coil
Primary Interest:
All Treasure Hunting
Steve_UK said:
CRUSADER said:
Steve_UK said:
Looks likely... thanks for that.

Sorry for late reply, been vegetating in front of the TV! :thumbsup:

what did you find today veg?

Nope.. rain.. and plenty of it! It's hardly stopped here all day.

Had to content myself doing some research... which was fun anyhow. :thumbsup:

Google Earth just changed some images, so re-look at the land you do!
 

Silver Searcher

Gold Member
Sep 27, 2006
10,386
2,657
UK
🥇 Banner finds
1
Detector(s) used
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Primary Interest:
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shaun7 said:
Steve_UK said:
You got me at it now Shaun... just cleaned up a button I found a few weeks back, says "Jeffries Leamington" on it.

Don't suppose you or Cru have any info on it? Can't find a thing on the net. ???

By the way... I haven't cleaned it up anywhere near your standard.... :icon_jokercolor:



found this list from 1891 :-\64,2 Ct 1 Hse Richard St,1,John Wooldridge,Head,M,43,,Oliver Man Irn/steel Stampr,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Ernest E Wooldridge,Son,S,15,,Helpr Oliverman Iron/steel St,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Ada Wooldridge,Dau,S,,12,,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Minnie Wooldridge,Dau,,,6,,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Eliza Davis,Lodger,W,,41,Char Woman,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Agnes Davis,Lodger,,,6,,,\- Unknown,,
,2 Ct 2 Hse Richard St,u,,,,,,,, ,,
65,2 Ct 3 Hse Richard St,1,John S Hill,Head,M,49,,Edge Took Maker,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Selina Hill,Wife,M,,48,,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,George Hill,Son,S,26,,Brass Worker,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Mary Hill,Dau,S,,16,Warehse Girl,Employed,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Amelia Hill,Dau,S,,15,Paper Box Maker,Employed,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Florence Hill,Dau,S,,11,,,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Clara Hill,Dau,,,7,,,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Marian Hill,Dau,,,4,,,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Beatrice Hill,Dau,,,2,,,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Samuel Hill,Son,S,18,,Stamper,Employed,Aston Staffordshire,,
66,2 Ct 4 Hse Richard St,1,Bartley Welch,Head,M,70,,Labourer,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Elizabeth Welch,Wife,M,,50,,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
67,2 Ct 6 Hse Richard St,1,Selina Jefferies,Head,W,,38,Button Maker,Employed,\- Co. Galway,,
,,,John R Jefferies,Son,S,7,,,,\- Warwickshire,,
,,,Henry Jefferies,Son,S,9,,,,\- Warwickshire,,
,,,Selina Lydon,Mother,M,,65,,,\- Co. Galway,,
,,,Patrick Lydon,Father,M,66,,Labourer,Employed,\- Co. Galway,,
,2 Ct 5 Hse Richard St,u,,,,,,,, ,,
,2 Ct 7 Hse Richard St,u,,,,,,,, ,,
70,2 Ct 8 Hse Richard St,1,George Smith,Head,M,44,,Gun Worker,Employed,Not Known Unknown,,
,,,Henry Smith,Son,S,16,,Scale Maker,Employed,\- England,,
,,,John Smith,Son,S,13,,,,\- England,,
,,,William Smith,Son,S,9,,,,\- England,,
I will nominate you for the Banner just for typing all that :D :D
 

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OP
shaun7

shaun7

Gold Member
May 20, 2008
6,193
64
uk
Detector(s) used
tesoro eldorado, tesoro lobo,goldmaxx xp
Silver Searcher said:
shaun7 said:
Steve_UK said:
You got me at it now Shaun... just cleaned up a button I found a few weeks back, says "Jeffries Leamington" on it.

Don't suppose you or Cru have any info on it? Can't find a thing on the net. ???

By the way... I haven't cleaned it up anywhere near your standard.... :icon_jokercolor:



found this list from 1891 :-\64,2 Ct 1 Hse Richard St,1,John Wooldridge,Head,M,43,,Oliver Man Irn/steel Stampr,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Ernest E Wooldridge,Son,S,15,,Helpr Oliverman Iron/steel St,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Ada Wooldridge,Dau,S,,12,,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Minnie Wooldridge,Dau,,,6,,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Eliza Davis,Lodger,W,,41,Char Woman,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Agnes Davis,Lodger,,,6,,,\- Unknown,,
,2 Ct 2 Hse Richard St,u,,,,,,,, ,,
65,2 Ct 3 Hse Richard St,1,John S Hill,Head,M,49,,Edge Took Maker,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Selina Hill,Wife,M,,48,,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,George Hill,Son,S,26,,Brass Worker,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Mary Hill,Dau,S,,16,Warehse Girl,Employed,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Amelia Hill,Dau,S,,15,Paper Box Maker,Employed,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Florence Hill,Dau,S,,11,,,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Clara Hill,Dau,,,7,,,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Marian Hill,Dau,,,4,,,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Beatrice Hill,Dau,,,2,,,Colne Staffordshire,,
,,,Samuel Hill,Son,S,18,,Stamper,Employed,Aston Staffordshire,,
66,2 Ct 4 Hse Richard St,1,Bartley Welch,Head,M,70,,Labourer,Employed,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
,,,Elizabeth Welch,Wife,M,,50,,,Birmingham Warwickshire,,
67,2 Ct 6 Hse Richard St,1,Selina Jefferies,Head,W,,38,Button Maker,Employed,\- Co. Galway,,
,,,John R Jefferies,Son,S,7,,,,\- Warwickshire,,
,,,Henry Jefferies,Son,S,9,,,,\- Warwickshire,,
,,,Selina Lydon,Mother,M,,65,,,\- Co. Galway,,
,,,Patrick Lydon,Father,M,66,,Labourer,Employed,\- Co. Galway,,
,2 Ct 5 Hse Richard St,u,,,,,,,, ,,
,2 Ct 7 Hse Richard St,u,,,,,,,, ,,
70,2 Ct 8 Hse Richard St,1,George Smith,Head,M,44,,Gun Worker,Employed,Not Known Unknown,,
,,,Henry Smith,Son,S,16,,Scale Maker,Employed,\- England,,
,,,John Smith,Son,S,13,,,,\- England,,
,,,William Smith,Son,S,9,,,,\- England,,
I will nominate you for the Banner just for typing all that :D :D



thanks, it took me ages :D
 

Steve_UK

Full Member
Dec 5, 2007
202
0
Midlands
Detector(s) used
Garrett Ace250
CRUSADER said:
Steve_UK said:
CRUSADER said:
Steve_UK said:
Looks likely... thanks for that.

Sorry for late reply, been vegetating in front of the TV! :thumbsup:

what did you find today veg?

Nope.. rain.. and plenty of it! It's hardly stopped here all day.

Had to content myself doing some research... which was fun anyhow. :thumbsup:

Google Earth just changed some images, so re-look at the land you do!

Cheers for that... been looking at abandoned WWII RAF/USAF Airfields. A lot of those are still very much intact, but converted into Industrial Estates.

Thought it would be nice to get permission to have a wander round some with the detector.
 

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