M-3 GoldenIrishmans Monsoon Mining Thread

[goldenIrishman]

So the question is, are any of their claims valid if they have not filed an amended mining claims location map with the county recorder?
I would think not, since a location map is required. At the very least there should be a new description by aliquot part.

Everything I've found says that ALL changes have to be made with the county. Notifying BLM comes after you've taken care of things with the county. In the case of this company, the last filing of any sort with the county was back in 2011 or so. (I'll get exact dates tomorrow) Just because it was BLM that laid down the law to then about having to downsize their claims, that doesn't mean they only have to file with the BLM. The changes must be recorded with the county in which the claim is located. By not making the changes in the county records, their claims should now be invalid as they've had plenty of time to take care of business.

On another note, Jan and I needed to get out of the house for a while today so we took a drive over to that area for a little look see. Looking at the sides of the washes you can see the layers of alluvial materials stacked up on top of each other. Looks like a prime area to me and I can't wait for tomorrow to get here so I can go find out the exact status of those claims out there. While we were exploring, we happened to come upon a pair of MPA members out doing some drywashing. Of course we stopped to shoot the breeze for a bit and we got some good info on the area form them. Being as that I'm still kind of new to this neck of the woods, getting help from long time residents is a huge help. I told them about the MyLandMatters site and gave them the address so they can check it out. They were impressed with the quality of the information I had gotten from Clays site and how I had it arranged in my notebook. Of course I didn't allow them to read the entire thing, but I did show them enough to prove that I'm serious about my mining and finding a claim or two. All in all it was a nice day for both of us. Jan got out of the house and I wasn't slaving over the re-circ system or the microscope.

 

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[goldenIrishman]

Sitting outside the county recorders office with notes in hand. Today I will find out if we are going to be able to do testing in the areas in question or not. Cross your fingers here folks!!!

 

[goldenIrishman]

Gentlemen.... Load your gear and start your engines!

After several hours pouring over the files at the recorders office, I'm happy to say that other than a blanket quit claim deed where seven of the partners bailed out there has NOT been a single filing from Bullhead Mining or Bayou Mining made at the county recorders office since 1999!!! It seems that everything and I do mean EVERYTHING has been filed with the BLM. Since none of the changes other than the quit claim deeds for Bayou 1-48 has been recorded, as far as I can tell these areas are legally open to explore and claim if we so choose.

Everything that was claimed was done in 160 acre chunks to start with. Many of the original claims are no longer even shown on the LR2000 and those that are never recorded a change since 1999. That means that well over 2800 acres have been falsely locked up for 15 plus years are in truth free and clear of current claims as per the county recorders office.

I have to thank a number of people for being able to learn how to do all this research. Our own Clay Diggins has taught me a LOT and given some timely advise along the way and I've got nothing but respect for that man. The ladies at the Mohave County Recorders Office were wonderful to work with and took the time to explain how their computer system works and then pretty much turned me loose on the public terminal. Jan has been more than patient with me while I did all this research and put up with me being a major grouch during this time. Guess I'd better cook up a heck of a dinner to thank her.

The paper trail for these claims has bounced from Arizona to Nevada to Connecticut to New York and even Louisiana got in on the act. The name of the owners seems to have changed at LEAST three times and no paperwork was ever filed with the county. Between the name changes, partners dropping out and lack of filing within the county that the claims are located in, I can't help but feel that my hunch that these properties were being used as bait for unknowing investors back east has been proven to be true. Mining scams are nothing new, but seeing first hand how elaborate this one was laid out has been both an amazing experience as well as an educational one. The paper trail was convoluted in the extreme and not an easy one to unravel.

My advise to everyone is that if you see an area you'd like to work and want to follow the rules, DO YOUR RESEARCH and do it to the best of your ability! You just might find a real pot of gold at the end of that research rainbow.

 

[Rob in KS]

What a convoluted story. I think you're right, it has to be a scam.
While you're cooking, better make some homemade cinnamon rolls for the ladies at the county recorders...LOL

 

[goldenIrishman]

I'll tell ya Rob, if I didn't have an eye for details I never would have uncovered this mess in the first place. What caught my eye in the first place was an entry in the LR2000 that just didn't match up with the info on LandMatters. I was trying to find something in that area to work and was checking out the current claims when I found it. I had seen on Clays site that the claim was listed as 160 acres but when I went to the LR2000 it showed that the fees were only $155. One of those things that makes me go W.T.F.!?!?! I knew that these guys had all kinds of claims in the area and that none of them were being worked so I delved into it a bit further. By the time I got into the meat of it all I was feeling like Alice when she fell down the rabbit hole. Clay told me how to get more info than what showed up on the normal LR2000 page and my pitbull tendencies kind of took over from there.

EDIT: The glitch that caused me to take notice was due to the fact the the BLM had not updated their files until a day or two AFTER the LandMatters site had done its update. If BLM had been on time, I'd never have taken notice of the difference. Sometimes having them be late is a good thing!

 

[SpecJet]

I've run into this exact same situation on many occasions. There's an area east of Lake Havasu where a guy has been playing all kinds of games to keep large tracts of land claimed up for years.
He ran the same game on every claim, 8 people sign for the association 160 acres, transfer to a single person, transfer to a corporation until that corp. has ten claims then start all over again with a new corporation. All the while taking the small miners waiver. It looks like the BLM is catching onto the game and he's had to reduce acres to 20 each and pay for each claim. Now many of them are open this year. As far as I can tell, he's done his county paperwork at least.

I'm starting to see the same thing happen here in Cali. around the Randsburg area on large claim blocks. Looks like BLM is requesting discovery information for the transfer of an association claim to a single person or requiring them to reduce acres. A lot of new ground opening up because of it.

 

[SpecJet]

What's your next step? Over file on those claims and battle it out in court if he challenges you?
I don't think the BLM will be any help in the matter, but they'll gladly take your money.

I've been contemplating this same thing for a while now on a few areas I've been researching.
My plans involve heavy equipment so a NOI and POO are in my future and I'm wondering if any of that can go forward with a senior claimant still on the BLM's records.

 

[SpecJet]

Here's a different scam I've seen up in Gold Basin.
File new 160 acre association claims with the county every 4 months for the same ground over and over.
Been going on for almost 2 years now, but never file with the BLM. That way you only pay the $10 county fee and avoid the $1250 BLM fee.

I'm assuming their plan would be, if anyone files with BLM, on "their" sections, they can file over your claim with a county filing date that pre-dates yours, thereby becoming the senior claimant.
Have no idea if that would actually work, but it's the only thing that makes sense to me.

 

[goldenIrishman]

That's why it's important to check the county records. There are always some people that want to try to beat the system and save a buck. I believe that such people make it hard for HONEST miners to get a good claim. If the practice can be documented, it should be brought to the attention of the proper authorities so this practice can be stopped. What they're doing is against the laws and as such their "claims(s)" SHOULD be rendered as invalid. If they're not filing with BLM as well as the county, being able to grab some of that area would be a matter of timing. Without filing with the BLM there is no federal claim number. If you get that, it should trump it in court if it comes down to a legal battle. If you could time it so you file while their claim is in limbo (90 days after staking) you could easily grab it up legally and they can't say a thing about it. Of course they'd try to whine about it but you'd be fully within the law. You just have to finish up the filing with BLM before they know what's happened.

Keeping your paperwork up to date and making sure that everything is in order is the best and only way to go. Any time that we find someone (be they a group or individual) playing fast and loose with the mining laws we should report it. This is the only way we can keep the playing field level so everyone has a fair chance.

 

[goldenIrishman]

Oh... In this case it would not be considered as "over filing" since their claim(s) are invalid to start with. To much time has passed and if they want to keep them they'd have to re-file from the start. I noticed that their claims were all filed on the same day and it was done by mail. It appears that they never had boots on the ground to make a PROPER DISCOVERY as prescribed by law.

 

[nh.nugget]

Irishman, after all this you better take Jan out to supper! And not Mc Donalds! LOL!

 

[goldenIrishman]

Irishman, after all this you better take Jan out to supper! And not Mc Donalds! LOL!

We rarely if ever got out to eat. She likes my cooking better than most restaurants! If we do eat out, it's usually because we're on the road and ready to start chewing on each others arms. I do about 95% of the cooking here so I guess it's a good thing that my mom taught me well!

 

[nh.nugget]

My wife burns Jello! When we eat out if anyone's meal gets screwed up it's hers. I too do all the cooking as well and quite well. And Happy Thanks giving!

 

[goldenIrishman]

Burns Jell-o? Man... That's really bad! Happy Turkey day ya turkey! Don't eat too much. I'm trying to convince Jan that we need to go prospecting.

 

[nh.nugget]

Yeah' when she tries making a recipe it's not pretty. I'm gonna stuff myself just like the bird and have a happy nap! Can't go prospecting got froze out probably till spring?

 

[goldenIrishman]

We're on kind of a backwards schedule out here. We knock off work here in the summer because of the heat. Freezing is never a real problem here although I did find a layer of ice on my panning tray and sluice tanks the other morning. I'm crazy enough to stay out working in the summer heat but only till it hits about 110 degrees. After that I head to the nearest air conditioned structure and start hibernating. Told you I was bass ackward!

 

[Hefty1]

Yea 8 years in Phoenix at 110, 3/4 of the year, riding my Harley was like suckin on blow dryer, had my air conditioned structures all picked out down along South Mtn, on Baseline rd.

Stayed until sun went down.....

 

[goldenIrishman]

I hear ya Brother! It's because of the heat that I am so hot to get the rebuild done on the trailer so it's got solar power. Then I can power lights without having to listen to a noisy generator and work in the cool of the night. Believe it or not I've also found a swamp cooler setup that mounts on a 5 gallon bucket to cool the tent of so I ca sleep during the day.

 

[Hard Prospector]

I hear ya Brother! It's because of the heat that I am so hot to get the rebuild done on the trailer so it's got solar power. Then I can power lights without having to listen to a noisy generator and work in the cool of the night. Believe it or not I've also found a swamp cooler setup that mounts on a 5 gallon bucket to cool the tent of so I ca sleep during the day.

Jeff, a swamp cooler that mounts to a 5 gal. bucket...From one desert rat to another this I could sure use so please elaborate.

 

[SpecJet]

Ya, I second that. You gotta spill on the 5 gallon swamp cooler.