MDing SHOULD be banned in all city, state, and federal parks!

[arizonaames]

I have to agree with the no's. MDing should be banned in parks. I visited a park in West Branch last week and found many holes left open that a MDer made. The park in Bay City, where I found a 1882 Indian Head the other day, also had similar holes in it today that were not filled. Someone must have seen me MDing, there, the other day and went home and pulled out the Walmart special because the holes in that park were around the trees that I had already hit and all I left was pulltabs and twist tops. I think it is time to ban MDing in the parks and perhaps have a federal license to detect where one has to pass a course like hunting. Those that kill a deer out of season (leave a hole unfilled) get a $1,000 fine and lose their license to detect permanently. There is nothing worse than to have my tax dollar spent on a nice lawn and gardens only to have some idiot destroy it over a penny!

 

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[Parkerized]

I have to agree with the no's. MDing should be banned in parks. I visited a park in West Branch last week and found many holes left open that a MDer made. The park in Bay City, where I found a 1882 Indian Head the other day, also had similar holes in it today that were not filled. Someone must have seen me MDing, there, the other day and went home and pulled out the Walmart special because the holes in that park were around the trees that I had already hit and all I left was pulltabs and twist tops. I think it is time to ban MDing in the parks and perhaps have a federal license to detect where one has to pass a course like hunting. Those that kill a deer out of season (leave a hole unfilled) get a $1,000 fine and lose their license to detect permanently. There is nothing worse than to have my tax dollar spent on a nice lawn and gardens only to have some idiot destroy it over a penny!

If a moderator added that ,it sure fits the rest of your story pretty well. People in glass houses...
I'm surprised it took 51 posts to be pointed out.

 

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[DirtDiggerDaveinMD]

Metal detecting should not be banned in any publicly funded park. This Arizona guy wants to force us to be licensed to use lands that we are all already paying for. How about charging per hole and giving the city, state, or county a percentage of your finds? Arizona if you want the government to dictate what you can do then go for it. But, leave the rest of us out of it. The last thing that I want is more government intrusion in my life. I have taken the time to perfect my digging techniques, and I shouldn't be punished because some squirrel was digging up acorns in your park. And, until you prove otherwise that the holes were made by another detectorist, the squirrels and coons will have to bare the blame.

 

[Native1858]

Those that can't respect, and refill, don't need to detect. If you do..................detect away.

 

[desecrator]

Quite simply, MD should be allowed in any recreational park that my tax dollars help to fund. Now certainly, all detectorists should properly fill their holes... and yes, it also bothers me when the idiots don't, but the bad actions of some should not ruin it for all of us. Here's my opinions:

1.) Recreational parks (not historical parks, landmarks, shrines, memorials, etc.) are meant for recreation, not as landscaping masterpieces. The ground is meant to be used and enjoyed, whether its for MD, sports activities or whatever. I NEVER want to see a "stay off the grass" sign in a public park. I suppose there's a fine line between "heavy use" and "destruction of public property", however, even a few uncovered holes (no matter how annoying) are not grounds for banning MD outright.

2.) I take pride in my MD ethics, and I'm glad that so many others do as well... that being said, I think some MDers take themselves a little too seriously. 99% of us do this as a hobby. It takes skill, dedication and years of practice, but its not brain surgery. And I don't feel it is on par with other activities that require tests and permits. To lump MDing in with things like driving or hunting is an unfair comparison. In these activities, human lives are at stake... leaving some dead grass is a far cry from accidentally shooting someone or hitting them with your car. There are other activities that can damage turf in a park too... are we going to require permits for kids to play a game of football and test them to make sure they know how to run without kicking up the grass?

All in all, I'd rather pay $20 a month to buy my city a bag of grass seed and go out and personally fill all the bad MDers holes than have MD banned or permitted... just out of principal. Freedom comes with responsibility... and I'd rather take ALL the responsibility than lose any of my freedom to detect.

 

[RonnieAZ]

WOW thats too bad some of you seem to have a problem with a bad apple or two personaly all the parks in my area are in fine condition and I know for a fact many people metal detect them BUT if I did go one day and someone left some empty holes uncovered I would take the time to cover them my self because I enjoy metal detecting and I wouldnt want someone trying to ban me from my hobby I certainly would'nt make a big fuss over it and try to ruin it for everyone just because I rather complain than than take a few minutes to make things right if I was in your area "and I might be I do live in arizona" let me know what park your talking about i'll come fill the holes myself. - RonnieAZ

 

[RonnieAZ]

You know I thought about this issue a few minutes after my last post I was at the park yesterday in ARIZONA there were atleast 5 guys on riding mowers, using leaf blowers, weed eaters.......Its just donned on me DUH we already pay for a full service landscaping crew at our AZ parks why would we need to pay more? anyway doesnt matter I just think some people arent happy if they arent causing trouble for others and again fill the damn holes if it bothers you.

 

[rjw4law]

Bah humbug, if they ban it, they will have to pry my detector out of my cold dead fingers.

 

[backitup83]

I read this post over two hours ago on my phone. I fumed for about an hour then took another hour to calm down while i was driving home to my computer.
Be carfull what you ask for and whom you ask for it. I can tell by your post that your are majorly concerned over the holes left in the park. As we all are. But asking the government or city government to police your hobby for you. What are you thinking. Who do you think they would go to for advice on what to do with us. Oh yes that small group of souls that get paid for digging up our Historical treasures and that hate us so much. what kind of rules do you think they would lay down. By the time they are done with us they will have us right where they want us. Aren't you governed enough as is. Why at the drop of a hat would you ask the entity that just loves to take away your freedom and can make rules to govern rules step in. In the long run you would be better off just hanging your detector up and pulling it off the Mantle once in a while for memories sake and to maybe wipe the dust off.
This is what has happened time and time again in the past, some group of people got tired of taking care of there problems and ask Big Brother to step in, and step in he does and he gives you just what you ask for. You want to be ruled, told what to do,pay more taxes and fee's. They will be more than glad to provide that service for you. At the present in most places you injoy the freedom of just asking permission to hunt. You ask them to come in and tell you what you can and cant do, you'r hunting days will pretty much be over. And dont think that all those goodies you find will go UN-taxed either. When was the last time you claimed all the clad, silver,gold etc as earned income and payed taxes on it.That's a rhetorical question you need not answer. If it up sets you so much about those holes, hang out at that park and find that guy and educate him,or find out if its the coons or squirrels doing the damage. Don't throw in the towel when its something you could do your self. Get some back bone and do something for yourself for a change instead of asking the government to do your thinking for you. Because they will, and you wont like it.
I read alot of the post and I may of said what some one else has said if so I'm sorry.
Don't get me wrong, I think we have the greatest government there is, I spent 20 years in the Navy and gave them my best. I vote and pay my taxes, and every morning I drink a cup of coffee a free man.But at this point in my life i don't think Big brother needs any more practice at dishing out rules,,,
Thank you for your time and listening to my big O.

Arizona Ames __ No it would not be my wish that you leave this forum-- One of our greatest freedoms in this great country is Speech-Good or bad, welcomed or not.. its our freedom--now im going to make a cup of coffee

 

[teddy]

I need to start with congrats on starting one heck of a great thread. It's not easy to get this many replies on anything here but it's 100 times more difficult when you're not one of the popular numbers here. Good job

As you already know, you're right. But that will never sell here (as you now also know)

teddy

 

[Tom_in_CA]

backitup83, what you are basically saying is, that if you ask enough people "can I metal detect?" you will just end up getting rules "to address your pressing issue". I see this happen all the time, and I keep harping on it, and a lot of people on the forum don't like it (because they see it as somehow lawless):

Pick a city, any city, where no laws exist on metal detecting. Ie.: a place where no city bureaucrat ever gave the matter thought before, and md'rs are just ignored. Now, go waltz in to city hall, and "ask permission" or ask if "detecting is ok" in city parks, and just what do you think the answer would be? Sure, you might get a few that say "no problem", but you can also get "no's" where no one ever cared before! I mean, think of it: the mere fact you're there asking, just pre-assumes that something is inherently evil, that you had to ask, to begin with (ie: would you have asked to skip stones on the pond? ask to fly a frisbee? etc...) And with that inference in mind, not to mention the mental image some arbitrary desk clerk might have of geeks with shovels, they can just say "no, simply because I said so". And then presto! you have a rule where none existed before.

I agree with you, and say it is risky to run around petitioning, asking for sanctions, etc.... It's tempting to think this is the best thing to do (when you read of isolated bootings somewhere else in the USA) but the reality is, the noose will only be tightened more. 99% of the people in parks, schools, beaches, etc.... think of md'rs as innocent geeky hobbyists. It's better to keep it that way, and not make waves. It's the old addage: "Sometimes no one cares........ UNTIL you ask"

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

You don't ask permission to play a game of football at a park, you don't ask permission to throw the fresbie at the park, you don't ask permission to take your dog to a park, you don't ask permission to practice chipping golf balls at a park, you don't ask permission to fly a model plane at a park, or play with a electric car, helicopter ect at a park, you don't ask permission to have birthday parties at the park, you don't ask permission to play loud radio at the park.......................why ask permission to metal detect at a park................ it is after all our park too!

 

[SC_Fisher]

Greetings all...I am new here on this site and recently re-entering a hobby I once enjoyed many, many years ago as a young lad. Coincidentally, I just posted a question on another site for information of how access might have changd over the years. When I was doing this approx. 30 years ago(only for about 3 years), I recall virtually no roadblocks to access or anyone complaining or asking us to leave, with the exception that National and State Parks were still off limits I believe. We always covered our holes, trying to leave the top turf intact.

"Backitup83" and "Tom_in_CA"...I am so in agreement with your points of view on this - great points. It never ceases to amaze me the people who happily beg the government to place more rules and regulations on top of them. They cry out for the "Nanny" State and I don't get it. In effect it's basically admitting, "We can't make responsible decision nor work to resolve things on our own, so please Mr. Gubamint take care of us."

To me, the answer lies in the people remaining involved and working this out with each other. I like the online forums and the metal detecting clubs that serve to help others understand and practice good technique and not being destructive to property.

Leave the government out of it...anyone who has remotely paid any attention to past history should know that getting local or federal government involved in regulation or licensing schemes WILL eventually work against the freedom of the people and the hobby in general. "Modest" licensing fees will only increase over time as politician's appetites are wetted for "new" revenue streams and more power and authority over citizens - I for one have had enough of that !

Although it seemed it has not been absolutely proven an MD'er left these holes in said park, rather than a coon, dog, or squirrel...for the sake of argument if you may notice a person doing this, then be proactive and attempt to identify the person and speak with them in a constructive manner offering insight at how they can ruin the entire hobby for all...including themselves. If the person completely refuses to cooperate, then the sole offender is dealt with...NOT bring government licensing and regulation across the entire spectrum. It floors me to find any metal detecting enthusiast in support of that.

Hey, if I visit a park to metal detect and notice some holes left, no matter how they were formed...before I raised a stink with local officials which then draws undesired negative attention, I would just cover up the darn holes myself and leave it at that.

I am also an Endowment NRA Life Member, so beleive me I have supported battles over increased and unecessary government regulation. On the contrary, MD'ers should be working to bring more freedoms to their chosen hobby rather than self-destructing it with demands for more government control.

And with regards to lobbies involved in counteracting negative legislation and working to preserve public access to public spaces, you may want to research these sites. If you like what you see - get involed !!

http://www.plp2.org/index.html

http://www.arra-access.com/site/PageServer


You've got enough to worry about with the Feds land grab plans :

http://www.landrights.org/



Regards,

SC_Fisher

 

[Sandman]

I don't know what happened to this dude that posted this thread, maybe lost in the desert. But I totally agree with you.

 

[backitup83]

Some one in a post said something about Wildlife managment.Let's apply some of those rules here.
Big game 25$-Small game 25$-Black Powder 25$- Bow 25$-Extra Doe Tags 25$.
Coins 25$-Relic 25$-Rings & such 25$-Beach hunting 25$-Season permit 25$.
October is coin only.November is Relic only. December is Jewelery only. January is Beach only. No hunting on Sundays you should be in Church.All your finds must be taken to a check station and tagged before transporting them. Limit is 10 per day unless you have bought extra tags,then you are allowed one extra item per day for four days that season.They rest of the year you can sit and wait with the hunters and swap fib's and drink your favorite beverage.
What was once a flat fee to hunt has mushroomed into a money makeing machine for someone-just not you and I.
The wildgame has been so over managed that PA has 50 to 100 deer car wrecks a week-They can't keep up with the road kill.
We would be managed into the corner-it would be so over priced it would be a worthless hobby to persue.
I injoy the time alone under my headset.But I would not spend that much for quality alone time with my self.
I know all those fee's seem outlandish. But if you think about it there closer to home than you might think. Don't lower the water-Raise the bridge. Filling some holes for someone or something seems like a small price to pay for the freedoms we already have at present.
And yes I agree if one goes asking if they can detect a park-Your asking to be told no.You have already payed taxes on that land. Ask permission from private land owners.
I've tryed for 3 years to kill the grass in my yard so I don't have to mow-im losing the battle as I still have to mow, its ok though I'm not giveing up just yet.
There were some good things said on here and I know I haven't addressed them but its hard to do from my phone while I'm driving-Just kidding but am on here via the BB.
Mike

 

[coinshooter]

Please blast this out to as many as you can. We have been picketing in front of NYC Parks and now need to follow up with another call campaign as we did earlier this year. Please see the attached doc file. I also copied and pasted it below. The link showing video news coverage of our demonstration is in the "call to arms" notice.

Thanks,

Carter Pennington
TFMDR


A CALL TO ARMS Phone & Email Campaign Commencing Monday November 30th, 2009

If you own a metal detector or know anyone who does, your voice needs to be heard.

TO: Fellow Enthusiasts who enjoy the lawful hobby of recreational metal detecting,

As many of you know, what has been happening around the country is also happening in New York City. We have been in a battle with NYC Parks for over a year and half regarding their discriminatory decision to either deny or limit access to NYC Parks for those of us who enjoy the lawful hobby of recreational metal detecting.

Earlier this month we held a demonstration in NYC on 5th Avenue in front of the Parks Department located in Central Park. The event was covered by local media; please click on this link to view some of the demonstration http://bit.ly/dnadetectors We know it is difficult for many of you to attend such demonstrations but now is your chance to help fight discrimination against our hobby by taking a few minutes a day next week and voice your concern. Your voice does make a huge difference!


WHAT TO DO NEXT?
<!--[if !supportLineBreakNewLine]-->
<!--[endif]-->

Starting Monday November 30th, 2009 and continuing ALL WEEK through Friday December 4th, 2009, Call / email each of the people listed below and let them know:

- You are not happy with being discriminated against as a group.

- You want to enjoy your hobby the same as any other group and that metal detecting is a lawful hobby that should not be restricted.

- Demand that NYC Department of Parks and Recreation repeal rule #1-04b5 prohibiting the use of metal detectors.


We must all band together to ensure our right to enjoy the lawful hobby of recreational metal detecting on public use land.


Thank you,

The Task Force for Metal Detecting Rights

Call (212) 639 9675 to file a complaint with Mayor Bloomberg’s office against the NYC Parks Department. Calling this number will ensure you receive a response because it is a designated non-emergency complaint line. Let Bloomberg know his Parks Department policies will influence your decision on whether or not you will be visiting NY. You can also email the Mayor’s office directly at [email protected]

Call (212) 360 1381 or (212) 360-8111 to voice your concerns to NYC Parks Commissioner Adrian Benepe. You can also email him directly at [email protected]

Call (718) 965-8954 to voice your concern to the Prospect Park Alliance spokesperson Eugene Patron or email him directly at [email protected]

Call (718) 965-8951 to voice your concern directly to Tupper Thomas, the Prospect Park Administrator and President of the privately funded Prospect Park Administration. You can also email her directly at [email protected]

 

[coinshooter]

BTW,
If your "tax dollars" are being spent on nice lawns and parks, how come you left the pull tabs and trash?
YOU were digging in that park when you found your "Indian Head" weren't you?
Maybe you should just sell your detector and take the money and donate it to the enviro "green" movement!

 

[Keppy]

Any time the goverment gets in our life all it does is hurt us and cost us money. We have why to much goverment now .. And the evro people are a bunch of loon's..

 

[SC_Fisher]

Folks,

THIS is what happens when you invite the government to get involved in regulating your freedom and chosen hobby !!

Below is a copy of a metal detecting policy from Orange County Florida :

I. ORANGE COUNTY PARKS AND RECREATION

METAL DETECTOR USE POLICY

I. POLICY
It is the policy of the Orange County Parks and Recreation Division that any use of a metal detector by a patron on
park property be registered and approved prior to the physical action of metal detecting. Approval will be given by
the Site Supervisor only after the individual who intends to utilize a metal detector has completed the required
application form.

II. PROCEDURE
a. Patron receives a copy of the Application and Policy. Patron completes Application
b. Patron submits completed Application.
c. Site Supervisor reviews Application within 14-days of receipt.
d. In the event of a request at any site considered a Partnership property, the Supervisor must contact and
receive prior approval from said agency prior to continuing with the process outlined here.
e. Site Supervisor approves the application if it is complete and contacts the user to notify of approval.
f. Agreements expire one-year from the date of issue. Unless a new Agreement is submitted, the patron
will be denied use of a metal detector from any date following expiration of the Agreement.
Metal Detecting Conditions

• Metal detecting activities should not contribute to trail-blazing and should not be conducted in prohibited areas
or areas where activity is discouraged (wetlands, environmentally-sensitive areas, archaeological sites, areas of
historical significance or within any facility or structure).
• When metal detecting, the surrounding environment shall not be disturbed. The cutting of vegetation is
prohibited.
• No tools other than a metal detector shall be used. This includes any digging device. If an item is discovered
deeper than six-inches into soil substrate, said item cannot be recovered.
• Any holes created must be refilled immediately. Failure to comply with this condition will result in the
revocation of the approved user agreement.
• Metal detecting shall be conducted in patron-use areas only and all park structures shall be utilized appropriately
during any search.
• Any actions that result in the harassment, endangerment, or death of any wildlife constitute grounds for
immediate termination of the Agreement.
• Metal detecting must take place within known park boundaries and cannot be conducted within 1,000 feet of
neighboring houses or commercial industries adjacent to park perimeters.
• Metal detecting must take place during established park operating hours.
• All local regulations and ordinances must be followed while metal detecting.
• All Orange County Parks and Recreation Rules and Regulations must be followed.
• Metal detecting is prohibited in construction areas.
• Metal detecting may not be permitted in partnership properties or lands not owned by Orange County. Approval
is contingent upon secondary approval from the principle agency.
• If physical signs of activity are impacting an approved location, management has the right to request that metal
detecting activity cease in this area.
• Any person(s) found in violation of the above conditions may be restricted from metal detecting for up to oneyear
(1) at any Orange County Park or Recreation Site.
• Orange County Parks and Recreation is not liable for any damage to personal metal detectors from weather,
vandalism, natural disaster, etc. or management activities conducted by the County or its contractors. 11/06 Rev.


Notice what i highlighted. First, they say NO tools, other than a metal detector, can be used...this includes digging tools.
Then directly contradict themselves in the very next sentence, they say, "...any holes created must be filled immediately."

Also, note, ..."no cutting of vegetation". Guess that also includes grass too.

And what is the problem with being within 1,000 ft of a neighboring house or commercial building ??!! WTH !!
To put that in perspective, that is over 3 football field lengths away.

Nice, huh? Does this make NO sense ??!! Typical government folks ! We should take every opportunity to push back against petty legislation like this...NOT invite it to our hobby as some "solution" !

This is what you would be in store for if calling out to the government to "manage" you.

Not if I can help it !!


Regards,

SC_Fisher

 

[backitup83]

Folks,

THIS is what happens when you invite the government to get involved in regulating your freedom and chosen hobby !!

Below is a copy of a metal detecting policy from Orange County Florida :

I. ORANGE COUNTY PARKS AND RECREATION

METAL DETECTOR USE POLICY

I. POLICY
It is the policy of the Orange County Parks and Recreation Division that any use of a metal detector by a patron on
park property be registered and approved prior to the physical action of metal detecting. Approval will be given by
the Site Supervisor only after the individual who intends to utilize a metal detector has completed the required
application form.

II. PROCEDURE
a. Patron receives a copy of the Application and Policy. Patron completes Application
b. Patron submits completed Application.
c. Site Supervisor reviews Application within 14-days of receipt.
d. In the event of a request at any site considered a Partnership property, the Supervisor must contact and
receive prior approval from said agency prior to continuing with the process outlined here.
e. Site Supervisor approves the application if it is complete and contacts the user to notify of approval.
f. Agreements expire one-year from the date of issue. Unless a new Agreement is submitted, the patron
will be denied use of a metal detector from any date following expiration of the Agreement.
Metal Detecting Conditions

• Metal detecting activities should not contribute to trail-blazing and should not be conducted in prohibited areas
or areas where activity is discouraged (wetlands, environmentally-sensitive areas, archaeological sites, areas of
historical significance or within any facility or structure).
• When metal detecting, the surrounding environment shall not be disturbed. The cutting of vegetation is
prohibited.
• No tools other than a metal detector shall be used. This includes any digging device. If an item is discovered
deeper than six-inches into soil substrate, said item cannot be recovered.
• Any holes created must be refilled immediately. Failure to comply with this condition will result in the
revocation of the approved user agreement.
• Metal detecting shall be conducted in patron-use areas only and all park structures shall be utilized appropriately
during any search.
• Any actions that result in the harassment, endangerment, or death of any wildlife constitute grounds for
immediate termination of the Agreement.
• Metal detecting must take place within known park boundaries and cannot be conducted within 1,000 feet of
neighboring houses or commercial industries adjacent to park perimeters.
• Metal detecting must take place during established park operating hours.
• All local regulations and ordinances must be followed while metal detecting.
• All Orange County Parks and Recreation Rules and Regulations must be followed.
• Metal detecting is prohibited in construction areas.
• Metal detecting may not be permitted in partnership properties or lands not owned by Orange County. Approval
is contingent upon secondary approval from the principle agency.
• If physical signs of activity are impacting an approved location, management has the right to request that metal
detecting activity cease in this area.
• Any person(s) found in violation of the above conditions may be restricted from metal detecting for up to oneyear
(1) at any Orange County Park or Recreation Site.
• Orange County Parks and Recreation is not liable for any damage to personal metal detectors from weather,
vandalism, natural disaster, etc. or management activities conducted by the County or its contractors. 11/06 Rev.


Notice what i highlighted. First, they say NO tools, other than a metal detector, can be used...this includes digging tools.
In the next sentence they say, "...any holes created must be filled immediately."

Also, note, ..."no cutting of vegetation". Guess that also includes grass too.

And what is the problem with being within 1,000 ft of a neighboring house or commercial building ??!! WTH !!
To put that in perspective, that is over 3 football field lengths away.

Nice, huh? Does this make NO sense ??!! Typical government folks ! We should take every opportunity to push back against petty legislation like this...NOT invite it to our hobby as some "solution" !

This is what you would be in store for if calling out to the government to "manage" you.

Not if I can help it !!


Regards,

SC_Fisher

Congratulations-- You have submitted the perfect example of why we dont want the Government .Local or otherwise to step in and make rules for us. Other than that im pretty much speechless---They backed you into a corner and tyed your hands. Are all the parks in Floridia like that or just the one you noted?
Sorry ,,I bet this topic really hits home for you guys and gals.
Mike

 

[SC_Fisher]

FORTUNATELY...I do not live in Orange County Florida, nor the State of Florida for that matter. I just found this as a great example of a bad example of what government regulation and licensing schemes will achieve over our freedoms to practice our chosen recreation and hobby on public access lands paid for with public-levied taxes.

We're paying for these spaces, and the maintenance of the spaces...local municipalities need reminding they do not OWN them.

I live in South Carolina.


Regards,

SC_Fisher