Militia Shield???

[zaxfire69]

Hello. A friend of mine has found this on his property and we are trying to ID it. The only piece I could find on the internet with this style of Eagle was an 1825-1832 Militia Artillery Officer Belt Plate. IT has the same style Eagle, but it is a Tongue Belt plate. This piece is in the shape of a shield. Appears to be brass. I don't have a picture of the back of it, but I do have one of the front of the plate. Any information from you guys would be great. This was dug on my friends property and he wants to find out what it is exactly. Thanks in Advance.

 

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[trikikiwi]

I might be wrong, but I think I've seen something similar on TNet some time ago - and the bird was a goose, not an eagle; and from memory, it was a rare find (a bit like my memory )

Mike

Edit: Now I see the Eagle, I'm the goose.

 

[zaxfire69]

This was the only similar bird I could find looking through the Internet pictures. A guy has that belt plate for sale. I was thinking my friends piece was some sort of hat plate, but I honestly don't know.

 

[duggap]

I know that a piece shaped like it but with different design on it was off a bicycle.

 

[vpnavy]

What state (or country) is your friends property located on zaxfire69.

 

[Dug]

I'm leaning towards a saddle shield. It would be helpful if you could somehow get a pic of the backside.

 

[creskol]

It seems to me that I have seen something very similar on a baldric device somewhere.

 

[zaxfire69]

This was dug in my hometown of Natchez, Ms at a property called Soldiers Retreat. This is the medallion we found at the old homesite of Brig Gen Ferdinand Claiborne. We think it comes from the Mississippi Volunteer Militia. Claiborne was involved in the War of 1812 and was a key figure in the Fort Mims Battle with the Creek Indians near Mobile, AL.

 

[DCMatt]

It looks like a shako badge - 1820's or 30's.

The shield shape was, apparently, popular during that era.


DCMatt

 

[artemis moon]

It's an interesting piece. Do you think that there's significance in that the eagle is facing behind him?

 

[zaxfire69]

We aren't sure. The only piece we could find with the Eagle facing that way was the 1825-1832 Militia Artillery Officer Belt Plate. A fellow named Jim has one online for Sale. Google 1825-1832 Militia Artillery officer belt plate.

 

[kuger]

We aren't sure. The only piece we could find with the Eagle facing that way was the 1825-1832 Militia Artillery Officer Belt Plate. A fellow named Jim has one online for Sale. Google 1825-1832 Militia Artillery officer belt plate.

I would be confident to say that "Jims",example is not authentic,and his reasoning for it being an officers is flawed as well.......

 

[creskol]

I would be confident to say that "Jims",example is not authentic,and his reasoning for it being an officers is flawed as well.......

With all "DEW" respect, James Dews (Jim)is probably one of the more knowledgeable folks I know, and it would surprise me if his description is flawed. In O'Donnell's and Campbell's book,American Military Belt Plates, Jim's buckle is Plate 144 on page 97, described as a "Waist Belt Plate, Militia Officer, ca. 1845-1855"

 

[kuger]

With all "DEW" respect, James Dews (Jim)is probably one of the more knowledgeable folks I know, and it would surprise me if his description is flawed. In O'Donnell's and Campbell's book,American Military Belt Plates, Jim's buckle is Plate 144 on page 97, described as a "Waist Belt Plate, Militia Officer, ca. 1845-1855"

Rob,with all DEW respect........I know for fact that he stretches the truth to near out right lies on descriptions....he has been buying California Two Piece buckles for some time and on more than one ocassion has claimed false provenance.Also the Civilian buckles we find here come both "Brass"(They are all made of brass)and a few Silver washed which have no Militia or military affiliation...his idea is pure speculation.
I give O'Donnels time frame a bit more creedence.........bit off of Jim's claims eh?

 

[creskol]

Rob,with all DEW respect........I know for fact that he stretches the truth to near out right lies on descriptions....he has been buying California Two Piece buckles for some time and on more than one ocassion has claimed false provenance.Also the Civilian buckles we find here come both "Brass"(They are all made of brass)and a few Silver washed which have no Militia or military affiliation...his idea is pure speculation.
I give O'Donnels time frame a bit more creedence.........bit off of Jim's claims eh?

Interesting .. I have never encountered that side of him. Thanks for the insight.

 

[kuger]

Interesting .. I have never encountered that side of him. Thanks for the insight.

...not trying to slam the guy,its just been quite interesting watching in years past.....we all know that "Civil War",in the description of an item brings the $$$,but its a shame that History and fact is lost in the pursuit of $$

 

[HutSiteDigger]

I think Rob hit a good point on the Baldric! Here are two examples of very similar design on a Baldric. I think if yours went on a baldric it may have been a French design. Also the shields like this on baldrics may have been used post war of 1812 more into the 1820s-1870s? I think CCHunter may be a good person to ask.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

If there is anyway you can get a photo of the back that may help out. Trying too figure out how this could been attached too something, apparently that small hole is one clue. Most baldric shields i see do not have that small hole on top but attached from the back?

 

[zaxfire69]

Yes. I will try to get him to send me one.

 

[HutSiteDigger]

What DCMatt said about the Cap Plate is very good. The more I look at it the more it could either be Cap Plate or on a Baldric. I think it resembles both but also the design on it looks more Civilian than military. But it could be some French design or something for military use. Possible it could even have been off a bicycle but I would weigh more options more on a Cap Plate or on a Baldric. Hope someone knows more about this design that is on yours!