moccasin last

[Jon Stewart]

Archeologist C.G. Yeager mentions them in a small paragraph in his book and remarked that he has seen only one in a collection and thats IF what he saw was actually a moccasin last. A few years ago I bought one (only artifact that I have ever purchased besides broken arrowheads) from a man that found it on the desert back in the 70's. He had a very large collection of larger artifacts, axe heads, adzes,celts etc, but it was the foot/shoe looking rock that drew my attention so I bought it . While speaking with the seller another man was standing there and said that he also found one out on the desert while deer hunting and it looked just like the one that I bought. I sent a photo of mine to Mr Yeager to get his opinion and he wrote:

"If there were, in fact, moccasin lasts, this would certainly be one. It's without a doubt one of the nicest shaped stones I've ever seen. Also, there does not appear to be "use wear marks" as would be present on a grind stone or mano."


My question has anybody else found one out there?

I would post a photo if I knew how to do it, duh!!! I would be glad to send a photo to anyone that would be interested in looking at it.

 

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[unclemac]

NativeTech: Overview of Native American Footwear ~ Moccasins

NativeTech: Making Woodland Style One-piece, Soft-sole, Center-seam Moccasins

the point being...no one has to sit still for any length of time to had a moccasin fitted to their foot. and of course to repeat....Indians didn't have "one size fits all" feet either, so you would need dozens of lasts to fit a band of folk, a place to store them and someone to take the time to grind out stone feet. Remember too, we have ALL found these, that shape natural stone is not uncommon or unusual.

 

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[quito]

the point being...no one has to sit still for any length of time to had a moccasin fitted to their foot. and of course to repeat....Indians didn't have "one size fits all" feet either, so you would need dozens of lasts to fit a band of folk, a place to store them and someone to take the time to grind out stone feet. Remember too, we have ALL found these, that shape natural stone is not uncommon or unusual.

to repeat, from one pattern you can scribe many many sizes. Funny so many turn up in places where people hunt for indian artifacts,,,, known sites.

I just think it would be easier to sew something together as such if it there was some resistance as one pulled the lashings tight. And that use wouldn't require the perfect fit most people here are thinking was needed.

 

[Jon Stewart]

I started this thread a few years ago with a wondering type post. A few of the answers/replies were of a condescending nature and really uncalled for. Many of us are/were pretty new at collecting and are looking for some sort of guidance. The picture of the moccasin last that I posted was found by a man who found it back in the 70's at an indian site that was loaded with artifacts. His research brought him to the conclusion that it was a last. I followed up with conversations and photos with an actual archeologist who gave me his opinion which was basically "if" they existed. No one really knows for sure. If that rock that I have was used "once" by an indian would that not make it a moccasin last? Unfortunately others posted photos after me and were referred to as having, "vivid imaginations". There have been 5,221 people view this post and only 60 replied. Maybe there is a reason.

I am a flintknapper. If I drop or loose a point today what time frame does it have to go thru before it is considered an artifact and who makes that determination and by what authority?

 

[IAMZIM]

I am wondering, is the idea of a "moccasin last" or the use of similar to a "sock darning egg"? I'm a little foggy on what it is really supposed to be? I mean no disrespect, but I have seen moccasins made, and have never seen them made with anything like that. I have a little knowledge of leather and hide working, and my feeling is, if they used stone in such a way to "shape" a moccasin, it would take much longer to shape a stone for use in that way than it would be worth. Really, a person could make 10 moccasins in the same amount of time that it would take to "shape" a stone for that kind of use. And, really to be effective in that way, that said person would have to have several stones, of various sizes, which would take even MORE time to make! Moccasins were not a "one size fits all item", to my knowledge, but I am not an expert in this area. I do however think I can put myself into the moccasin's maker's "shoes"(lol), or thinking pattern, and the more I think on it, the less sense it makes to have the stone to make them. Once again, I am not an expert on this!

 

[IAMZIM]

to repeat, from one pattern you can scribe many many sizes. Funny so many turn up in places where people hunt for indian artifacts,,,, known sites.

I just think it would be easier to sew something together as such if it there was some resistance as one pulled the lashings tight. And that use wouldn't require the perfect fit most people here are thinking was needed.

Ah, I see.

 

[Charl]

To my knowledge, nowhere in the ethnographic literature does one find a description of Native Americans using stone lasts to make moccasins. I cannot find any accounts from the 17th through 19th centuries, describing moccasins, that include mention of a last.

Primary Source: Indian Moccasins : The Colonial Williamsburg Official History & Citizenship Site

 

[justonemore]

What always gets me is if they even made moccasin lasts, why rock? And why aren't there hundreds of these to be found? And why not wood?

 

[Charl]

What always gets me is if they even made moccasin lasts, why rock? And why aren't there hundreds of these to be found? And why not wood?

Yeah, thinking the same thing. Why not wood? There's also this cogent observation, which I found in the info center of another artifact related site:

"In fact no known Native American footwear required a stone last since stiff shoes were not produced, as far as we know. “Hard” leather or rawhide was only used for the soles of moccasins (and some were also made from pliable leather), the upper parts being soft and supple. There was no particular need for a three dimensional last – a simple flat template for the sole would have sufficed and the foot itself would readily serve that purpose. Having cut a pair of soles from rawhide, there’s no reason why those soles could not have been used as templates for successive pairs of shoes if a template was needed at all. If stone lasts were used, they would surely turn up in huge numbers."

Native Americans were much more practical then to have used stone, given the above simple facts. I should think. A last is used with hard leather to make stiff shoes. But if Native Americans did not use hard leather to make moccasins, and did not make stiff shoes, well then they did not need lasts, stone or otherwise.

I have also by now found numerous 18th century accounts of settlers making moccasins on the fly when their European style shoes wore out. Nowhere in their descriptions do they mention packing a moccasin last, of any material, in their gear. In addition, regarding the alleged stone lasts. Can anybody show an example that has clearly been pecked and ground into shape? I've never seen anything but natural rocks resembling feet.

Early settler accounts of making moccasins on the fly, etc. no mention of lasts at all, and I find it implausible that they would be packing lasts in their gear before setting out on their explorations, etcetera:

http://ofsortsforprovincials.blogspot.com/2011/05/moccasins-and-shoe-packs.html

http://buffalotrace1765.blogspot.com/2010/10/moccasin-makingrepair-kitor-i-need-to.html

Have any indisputable stone lasts ever been excavated in context? Are these in the same league as flint thunderbirds? Not quite, the thunderbirds are faked. But have either been found in an actual context as a clearly recognized artifact? Or are the "lasts" all rocks that look like feet? I think one bottom line is the practical nature of things would seem to preclude the use of stone in favor of wood or leather itself. But no lasts at all were apparently required to make a moccasin. I believe there is sufficient reason to doubt the existence of stone moccasin lasts. If there was no need for them, we can be reasonably certain natives did not make use of them.

 

[Crystaljoy]

Stone foot found. Could someone tell me what I could be

You can post images by clicking on the "go advanced" button, then click on "manage attachments"...from there you browse, select and UPLOAD them.

Hello. I recently found a stone right foot that was with many other Indian artifacts. Ive been reading that its most like not a mocassin last but dies anyone have an idea what it could be? I am located in SE Idaho and these artifacts seem to be from Idaho, Oregon and possibly Washington. Any help identifying it would be very helpful. There does seem to be indian carvings on it and a round depression on the outside of the foot. Thank you in advance.

 

[dirstscratcher]

Someday I'll dig out my baby moccasin bootie last and share the photo. It was a right foot, I looked on the site for years for the matching left one. I never found it and figured they must have had it bronzed.

 

[Buckleberry]

It's just a rock Crystaljoy, keep looking.

 

[unclemac]

where are you? SE Idaho is a great spot... all of S Idaho is... and go down to NV too! High desert is like a giant beach.

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Sorry Crystaljoy, yours just like the rest in this thread are natural rock and imagination.

 

[unclemac]

by the way, this is a very good thread on the subject and it is good that it popped up again.

 

[gunsil]

I completely disagree that there were any "moccasin lasts". When I was young my sister and I made many moccasins from scratch. We also made several different styles over the years. They lasted well in the woods but if worn on concrete they wore through fairly quickly. for the more common moccasins you merely stand on a piece of leather while somebody traces around your feet. There is a formula (this was over 60 years ago) which I have forgotten about how much leather you leave outside the feet pattern to bend up and stitch in the front top. The back is slit twice at the heel, folded up and stitched. One pair would usually last a summer and growing kids need new shoes often. I think my mother was pretty smart teaching us how to make them since for short money we had new shoes every year. Of course we had nice shoes for school (all though many were hand me downs), but spent the summers and warm weekends in mocs. I also had a breechclout (breechcloth) that I wore in the woods for years. Had a flannel center with leather ends. Also my mother made me a leather vest which I embellished with a nice lazy stitch beaded pattern. You used to be able to buy a southwestern style moccasin kit from Tandy Leather called "Sequoia Moc" and one could easily have made them without the kit or any lasts by the foot tracing method and just making the southwestern higher ankle cover fit. I think you only need a last to make white man's shoes with a thick sole sewn to a thin leather upper. NA mocs never had thick soles. Once I shocked some rabbit hunters in the woods when they came up on me with a dead rabbit on my belt, wearing a breech clout and mocs, with a light lance with a real dug stone point tip which was bloody from my getting the rabbit with it. They had beagles and shotguns, no rabbits, I think I was 13 at the time, summer of 1960.

 

[gunsil]

Here is a photo of the vest my mother made me and I beaded 61 years ago when I was twelve. Took me most of the summer to do it and was very hard using the split cowhide leather rather than NA tanned deerhide.

 

[southfork]

where are you? SE Idaho is a great spot... all of S Idaho is... and go down to NV too! High desert is like a giant beach.

The ancient lake rings go on forever like walking on a beach .

 

[H.P.]

I can’t believe there’s even a discussion about this.

 

[unclemac]

this is not the only thread either.....

 

[unclemac]

The ancient lake rings go on forever like walking on a beach .

if you ever get the chance....Australia is one gigantic beach!