More Interesting New Findings From The Beale Ciphers

[ECS]

ECS brings up an interesting point. How much fiction has been brought in over the years of the Beale treasure searches? Reading through most of the ideas put forth by well meaning researchers, I see a lot of conjecture and fiction...

...and the major point ignored by those who claim to have solved the C & C3 Beale ciphers is that NO evidence has ever been found outside of the pages of the Beale Papers that can confirm anything in the narrative text as actually ever happening.
Yes, the names employed in the story provide a plausible believability to the presented story, but once again, there is NO outside evidence that they did what was told in the story, and most probably used as a literary device to sell copies of those "authentic statements" to 1885 Lynchburg.
So, if the story is fiction, including the provided DOI solved C2, what does that reveal concerning the two unsolved ciphers, and then claimed solves that have been claimed?

 

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[legrand]

ECS brings up an interesting point. How much fiction has been brought in over the years of the Beale treasure searches? Reading through most of the ideas put forth by well meaning researchers, I see a lot of conjecture and fiction. As for Emma Jean Rose and her fictional books, she did base the book from her findings and researching of the Beale papers. Simply writing a book on what her research revealed would have been rather short and somewhat boring. So, as any good writer, she did "fill out" the book with fiction, thus its classification. But I can say there are three or four pages of the second book that is basically word for word of her findings. She has spent over 30 years of research on this. Her and her family has a dream of finding the treasure. At least they acted upon what she decoded and left their homes, entered the field and went to work. How many "researchers" on here can say they have actually dug for the Beale treasure?

I'm sharpening my shovel...can't confirm, deny or validate anything further at this time.

 

[ECS]

It must have gotten dull from all the holes you have dug on these threads.

 

[legrand]

It must have gotten dull from all the holes you have dug on these threads.

One hole ECS ...yet to be dug; all the rest national historical sites.

 

[franklin]

Justintime who was on that Josh Gates episode about the Beale Papers, and Franklin, but he also put out a Beale book classified as fiction based on 99% fact.

I also have a pamphlet published and copyrighted in 1990 that is non-fiction that has the decipherment of C1 and C3. It is copyrighted. And I am not going to say that is authentic statements as the author of the JOB PRINT PAMPHLET. I AM SAYING THAT IT IS FACT. FACT! FACT! Now Mr. ECS prove it is wrong. You can not because you will not put one ounce of work into anything. You only post over and over the same rhetoric that is worth sand in a desert.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

It is more like a booklet, and it IS good; plausible. FACTS, indeed... "TRUE, AUTHENTIC" event that MAY have GREATLY 'influenced' the Beale PAPERS Pamphlet/"JOB PRINT"... MANY "True, Authentic" events PAPERS from the early to late 1800's, (@ 1882); starting with the Lewis & Clark Expedition (which Thomas Jefferson's slave son Beverly (aka "Tom" in TJ's FARM BOOK) participated in as a SERVANT; a light-skin "Black" that darkened as exposed to the Sun. Beverly/"Tom" fought for an ALL WHITE unit... YANKS, during the CONFEDERATE WAR. ANOTHER of TJ's son ALSO was a YANK; younger son died BEFORE the CONFEDERATE WAR... FACTS!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

OPEN, AWAKEN, LIVE! Read the Beale PAPERS Pamphlet/"JOB PRINT" with REFRESHED eyes & heart... That is all.

 

[bigscoop]

One hole ECS ...yet to be dug; all the rest national historical sites.

This isn't even a new claim, same old-same old, and of course as will be the case, which always is the case in regards to the one location searched, "treasure had already been removed." Why? Because there never was a treasure other then the one manufactured in one's own mind. In the end there is nothing left but the self manufactured illusion and the smoke and dagger beginnings. "You can't recreate reality from complete unknowns."

 

[franklin]

This isn't even a new claim, same old-same old, and of course as will be the case, which always is the case in regards to the one location searched, "treasure had already been removed." Why? Because there never was a treasure other then the one manufactured in one's own mind. In the end there is nothing left but the self manufactured illusion and the smoke and dagger beginnings. "You can't recreate reality from complete unknowns."

You show proof of what you say instead of just saying it then I will believe. You have no proof. You are only stating what you believe. Prove your words that there is no treasure only the one manufactured in their own minds. Show us proof and I will stop posting and I will definitely stop researching for the truth. Until you have verifiable proof let us continue the search. Bigscoop you and ECS keep claiming that there is no treasure that the story did not happen--------you lay the proof on us to verify your statements. If you can not then the research and the search will continue.

 

[ECS]

I also have a pamphlet published and copyrighted in 1990 that is non-fiction that has the decipherment of C1 and C3. It is copyrighted. And I am not going to say that is authentic statements as the author of the JOB PRINT PAMPHLET. I AM SAYING THAT IT IS FACT. FACT! FACT! Now Mr. ECS prove it is wrong. You can not because you will not put one ounce of work into anything. You only post over and over the same rhetoric that is worth sand in a desert.

How can you determine how much work I devote to anything? That seems to a subjective statement judgement on your part.
Why, when my research shows that nothing in the Beale Papers story ever happened would I waste effort in proving a subjective speculative solution from a fictional story to be wrong?
With the various Beale cipher solutions currently claimed by those on these threads and those proclaimed since the wonderful Hart Papers and Pauline Innis's book brought this story back to life, how does one determine which claimed solve is right and or correct?
What all those who have claimed Beale cipher solutions have in common, THEY ALL BELIEVE THEIR SOLVE WAS THE ONLY CORRECT ONE.
Now with all your years of research you are very aware that the events of Beale's perilous adventure in the pamphlet never happened, so why would you think that Morriss actually told the "unknown author" this tale in the "2nd year of the Confederate War", gave him the letters, the iron box and ciphers, which after twenty years, handwrote a manuscript including transcribed ciphers and presented it to Ward to copyright as agent and publish for sale?
If the Beale story is obvious fiction, why would anyone expect the ciphers to contain true messages?

You have critiqued my posts as being the same over and over, by you, friend Franklin, have done the same, repeating the same worn tales and claims, endless genealogies and totally unrelated "facts", and many times making a "new discovery" statement , then never following through.(What ever happened with the "I found the unknown author, and have seen a photograph of his son").
PS, Its nice to see that you never placed Bigscoop or me on ignore.

 

[legrand]

This isn't even a new claim, same old-same old, and of course as will be the case, which always is the case in regards to the one location searched, "treasure had already been removed." Why? Because there never was a treasure other then the one manufactured in one's own mind. In the end there is nothing left but the self manufactured illusion and the smoke and dagger beginnings. "You can't recreate reality from complete unknowns."

Creating reality from complete unknowns"...it's been done. You refuse to acknowledge this FACT. It will be proven to you. As you said of your opinion earlier in one of the threads..."I may be wrong". And, you are.

 

[bigscoop]

Creating reality from complete unknowns"...it's been done. You refuse to acknowledge this FACT. It will be proven to you. As you said of your opinion earlier in one of the threads..."I may be wrong". And, you are.

No, it has never been done........can you reference one such case? But of course you can't, and won't. Be careful here if you do, as your supply of nails has to be running low.

 

[ECS]

One hole ECS ...yet to be dug...

With that reality from unknowns quip, I think you have dug it!

 

[legrand]

Creating reality from complete unknowns"...it's been done. You refuse to acknowledge this FACT. It will be proven to you. As you said of your opinion earlier in one of the threads..."I may be wrong". And, you are.

Yes, it has been done ...the case I'll reference is the one at hand. I can and will reference the truth. But, not to you.

It's so plainly obvious, by your eloquent writing (??), that you love me...

Wow, am I happy I'm not you.

 

[bigscoop]

Yes, it has been done ...the case I'll reference is the one at hand. I can and will reference the truth. But, not to you.

It's so plainly obvious, by your eloquent writing (??), that you love me...

Wow, am I happy I'm not you.

.....another dodge, just as expected. Imagine that. I was just in at Lowes, they had their nails on sale if you're interested. I'm sure they'll even deliver if you order enough, which I doubt, at this point, that you could ever order enough...

 

[franklin]

How can you determine how much work I devote to anything? That seems to a subjective statement judgement on your part.
Why, when my research shows that nothing in the Beale Papers story ever happened would I waste effort in proving a subjective speculative solution from a fictional story to be wrong?
With the various Beale cipher solutions currently claimed by those on these threads and those proclaimed since the wonderful Hart Papers and Pauline Innis's book brought this story back to life, how does one determine which claimed solve is right and or correct?
What all those who have claimed Beale cipher solutions have in common, THEY ALL BELIEVE THEIR SOLVE WAS THE ONLY CORRECT ONE.
Now with all your years of research you are very aware that the events of Beale's perilous adventure in the pamphlet never happened, so why would you think that Morriss actually told the "unknown author" this tale in the "2nd year of the Confederate War", gave him the letters, the iron box and ciphers, which after twenty years, handwrote a manuscript including transcribed ciphers and presented it to Ward to copyright as agent and publish for sale?
If the Beale story is obvious fiction, why would anyone expect the ciphers to contain true messages?

You have critiqued my posts as being the same over and over, by you, friend Franklin, have done the same, repeating the same worn tales and claims, endless genealogies and totally unrelated "facts", and many times making a "new discovery" statement , then never following through.(What ever happened with the "I found the unknown author, and have seen a photograph of his son").
PS, Its nice to see that you never placed Bigscoop or me on ignore.

Well let us discuss some of the things you have brought up. You mention worn tales and claims.......such as? You mention unrelated genealogies and totally unrelated facts....... again such as? And many times making a "new discovery statement.........again such as? And you say I never follow through?

Well I do follow through. That is why it takes 50 or 60 years sometimes because I always follow through.

Now you ask about the unknown author of the Job Print Pamphlet or Beale Papers? Well I have his name, his brothers name and their sons. As I said I also have the unknown author's son. But wait I have to investigate further, his son may be the "unknown author." I told you I had an appointment in two months with the landowner that now owns the "unknown author's home" Yes it is the "unknown author's home because both father and son lived there.
But since you can not wait two months for further investigation is either of two reasons. One, you are dying to know the "unknown author's identity" Well I am not going to say until my research is finished. Since, you can not wait two months reveals your lack of patience. It is good that you are not a mother and have to carry a baby for nine months, you would either die or kill the baby before it was time for it to be born.

And yes I do a lot of genealogy, family search, Deed Searches, Will searches, land plot map searches. Hell I do a lot of searches and research a lot. Yes I make claims as to genealogy of Robert Morriss' family and all of it has proven to be correct. Even the founder of Piggly Wiggly was proven to you that he was a great grand nephew of Robert Morriss. After you are proven wrong then you come up with the quote, "Well what does this have to do with the 1885 Beale Papers? Your gospel answers for everything. Well it does not contain all the facts to everything. That is why others and myself research and we research a lot then we have a no nothing keep telling us how the story is a dime novel or a fictious story made up out of the mind of James Beverly Ward. Hell we all know this is a possibility and that is why we get on here on this forum to talk and discuss our research. No need of everyone repeating research and work we have already done. That is why we post we seek answers and I might add your answer is a given and we understand that so why keep telling us over and over and ruining every thread of discussion on the Beale Treasure Mystery.

 

[ECS]

...and still, Franklin, after 50 years plus of research of "genealogy, family search, Deed Searches, land plot map searches", you still can't prove that Ward's 1885 Beale Papers was nothing more than a period adventure treasure dime novel play along parlor entertainment ciphers.
Is this game worth all the burnt down candles with all this idle punctilio?

 

[franklin]

And you have not proved that Ward's 1885 Beale Papers is an adventure treasure dime novel either. As for the candles that went out with A. Lincoln. And yes it has been worth it, I have learned a lot of history doing this research and a lot more. So what is your point you think you have convinced me to stop or quit well you are doing nothing but wasting everyone's time.

 

[ECS]

I am not trying to get you to quit or stop your research, rather encourage it, for it confirms that no evidence outside of the job print pamphlet exists that can confirm anything in the Beale Papers.
Keep up the good work!

 

[bigscoop]

I am not trying to get you to quit or stop your research, rather encourage it, for it confirms that no evidence outside of the job print pamphlet exists that can confirm anything in the Beale Papers.
Keep up the good work!

Yep, that's sort of what I've been pointing out as well, the more some of these certain claims get promoted the more that absence of provenance gets exposed.