MUST READ! Why Youre Not Finding Stuff & Todays Digs

[Michigan Badger]

MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

These are my digs for today. I only had 15 to 20 minutes to hunt.

Here's the story: I've often wondered why at times my detectors just seemed to hum along with no targets and no good finds.

Today I decided to test a theory I've held to for years but never took the time to actually test. I've always believed we get our best finds shortly after loading in new batteries. In other words, we're not finding as much as we could because our batteries aren't up to the level where our machines can work to their full potential.

I went back this evening to the exact same spot where I dug the 1902 V and 1880 Indian cent last week.

I hunted for about an hour with only a square nail dug. My batteries only had about 5 hours on them. I then put new batteries in (they came from the same package of 16 Copper Tops). Within 20 minutes this is what I found.

1. 1 1963 Silver Dime
2. 1 Very old button with Ivory ?
3. Old brass knob

Well, I'm convinced.

Badger

 

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[Smartin]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

Badger,

Dang! the rechargables are great, too bad for you. Did you charge them a full 24 hrs?
If you got a volt meter, check each one. I had one that was zero volts, it messed-up the charge for all, but after a good 24hr charge the others were fine.


Smartin

 

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[Michigan Badger]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

Badger,

Dang! the rechargables are great, too bad for you. Did you charge them a full 24 hrs?
If you got a volt meter, check each one. I had one that was zero volts, it messed-up the charge for all, but after a good 24hr charge the others were fine.


Smartin

No, my charger (Sony 2500 mah) shuts off after about 6 hours of charging. It's supposed to be one of those "Quick Chargers."

I used DURACELL 2500's in place of the Sony cells...could that be the reason for the problem?

 

[Smartin]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

Badger,

No, I don't think it matters what brand you use. The more milli/amp rating requires a little more charge time, but with a quick charge I'm not sure, usually charge time is directly related to transformer size and amp out-put of the charger. Just like car batteries, you can quick charge at 40amps in 10 min, or you can charge at 2amp pulse charge for 2 days (trickle charge ) the slower is better for "deep cycle battery like a marine battery. Havn't researched Nihm batteries enough, but I use the standard 2.8v 200mA charger- suggested charge time of 16hrs for 8 "AA" batteries. Even though the Nimh don't have a "memory" charge cycle, I think you should fully charge before using. The idea is they don't have to be totally dead to charge, unlike the Nicd.

Good luck,

Smartin

 

[bazinga]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

Why can't our detectors just act like our cars and keep the battery going at all times?

I've noticed in the past with my explorer that once it gets below half of its battery power that I am basically holding on to a big heavy stick that makes a lot of noise.

I just always keep batteries charging in my car 24/7. Whenever one gets a few hours of use on it I just swap it with the freshly charged ones.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

Why can't our detectors just act like our cars and keep the battery going at all times?

I've noticed in the past with my explorer that once it gets below half of its battery power that I am basically holding on to a big heavy stick that makes a lot of noise.

I just always keep batteries charging in my car 24/7. Whenever one gets a few hours of use on it I just swap it with the freshly charged ones.

Yes, thanks for the comments. There are few who seem to realize it but battery strength is extremely important.

I used to run a Minelab Excalibur mounted on a straight shaft for land hunting. It worked great with it's rechargeable. I sure wish all the other brands designed their equipment to work with rechargeables. Spending $30 in one month for batteries is a bit much.

Tesoro detectors are almost unbelievable when it comes to finding the deep stuff in trashy areas. But, they are big time battery hogs.

I'm going to get my butt over to the nearest big city and the discount chain stores to find some bargains on quality Alkaline AA's. I could sell the DeLeon but heck, I'm finding more silver and Indians than I've found in years. I guess it's like if I want to play, I have to pay.

 

[Xraywolf]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

I don't have a professional electronics backround, but more than a passing interest and practical experience [I can read shematics and construct fairly complex circuits].
I have modified, or am planning to modify, just about everything electronic I have ever owned.
I'd say there is no doubt machine performance will start to degrade in proportion to the batteries state of charge at some point ... But if yours degrades after just 5 hours, that is a bit extreme and sounds like a possible battery and/or machine flaw.
Your finds on ground you already covered could well be explained by improper coil over-lap. I know I keep plucking things from areas I have literally been over a dozen times, with batteries in all states of charge.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but alkalines have more of a gradual drop-off of power, eventually fading to the point where they won't power the machine [but might well still power something with less drain] ... While ni-cad ni-mh rechargeables tend to hold full power, then just die.
I also recall reading [in a minelab forum] that using the highest rated high drain rechargables [2500ma is it?] is not recommended, and in fact may cause the machine to act flakey .. And 1800-2200 are recommended.
I'll post this info if I can find it again.

 

[Breville]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

My own experience is MAHA NiMh batteries have been MoeBetah. Just got some sanyo NiMh 2700 's and is good stuff
but will have to wait to see how they are in the long haul.
Got some Ever 2500's at Wallie World and they did not last. Have had the MAHA's from Thomas Distributing for a few years and they are still going and going.

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

Just recently I went into K-Mart and found RAY-O-VAC Alkalines AAs in packs of 12 for $3. It cost me only $2 to load my Tesoro and the batteries work great!

So far I like them much better than DURACELL.

Since I first started this post I've been re-doing my original test and I keep finding the same results.

When my batteries get about 6 hours on them they're junk. Oh, the machine will still buzz along and seems to be working just fine. But, it actual field hunts, just as soon as I put in fresh batteries (after 6 hours use) I start making good finds.

I can't say if this is true with every brand detector made because I haven't used every brand or model out there. But with Tesoro (and I suspect all other brands), batteries make or break the machine.

Why risk missing some awesome find just to save a few cents on batteries? Think about what you spend on gas to get to the hunting site.

 

[Breville]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

What Tesoro do you have?

 

[Mirage]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

Ok let me explain from two perspectives why I think having ?fresh? batteries is not necessary to get better performance from most metal detectors made in the last 10 years ? especially those with any type of low battery indication.

First from my experience with my White?s DFX, Minelab Quattro and Fisher Coinstrike; Some great finds and deepest finds have come with the DFX ?low battery? indicator lit. Likewise I notice no degradation in performance running the Coinstrike down to 7V(nominal voltage is 9 V). The Quattro(same circuitry as Explorer) does not have an actual voltage readout but I have run it down to the low battery warning and have not noticed any difference in performance, function, etc.

To really prove ?from experience? you have to do test in highly controlled environments where you only change one variable at a time. I would accept results if it was from someone?s coin garden and the only thing they changed was the battery voltage/state of charge/condition.

Now from the circuit design/theory point of view. Here is a good website with patents, theory and actual schematics.
http://www.thunting.com/cgi-bin/geotech/pages/common/index.pl?page=main&file=main.dat

I reviewed two of the schematics(one of which is a Tesoro) and both detectors regulate the battery voltage to provide a constant voltage to the critical coil/control/signal processing circuit. The only part that is not regulated is the audio portion which really is not that critical (might not be as crisp and loud at low voltages). Note that this configuration is with the "cheap" detectors. Don?t know if the better ones include the regulation for the audio portion as well. Anyway, any power source that provides a voltage above a certain limit that supplies the required current will perform as well. It could be a fuel cell, Solar Array, NiCad Battery, NiMh Battery or a bunch of lemons with metal plates as a power source! So from a theoretical side fresh batteries are not required to optimize performance. Now if your detector does not have a low battery indication then I would recommend recharging/replacing your batteries more frequently(as I do with my White?s Classic III).

Lastly, would you want to buy a top of the line detector that depended on having fresh batteries to optimize its performance?

Mirage

 

[Huizer]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

I fully agree with Mirage on this one. My dad is a schematic designer....and I have been around electronics all my life. I still have all the old Elektor magazines from the 70s. I remember soldering stuff as a kid. Burned myself a few times. Anyways....just a quick test you can do: After using your alkaline batteries in your detector for say 6 hours, take them out and measure the voltage that you get from all 8 ( the voltage that your detector would see) then do the same for a brand new set. What is the difference? You say your detector is a hungry beast? are you using the speaker or headphones? Your detector may have a need for a constant supply of say 10 volts? It might be in the design. So as it drops close to this or below it you might get that poor performance. I guess you could take it apart and see what voltage regulator is in there.....maybe its shot?
Oh yeah, I forgot, What is the recomended battery life for your detector? Could indicate something is wrong....

Hey Mirage? Did you ever build the ProScan PI detector from Carl's site? I had a working version kicking around here in various stages of completion. Works pretty good. Just wondering.

Dan.

 

[Monty]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

I bouight some ultra-expensive NiMh batteries and a charger. Charged them up as per instructions and set them aside to wait until my standard batteries needed replacing. That took about 3 weeks and when I installed the NiMh batteries they were nearly discharged! For some reason they discharged on their own while not being used. Monty

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

What Tesoro do you have?

I use the DeLeon. On the Tesoro forum I've had other owners tell me they experienced the same thing I have.

It may not make sense theoretically but that's the way it is.

Now, enough theory for one day...it's off to dig the loot! (with fresh batteries) 8)

 

[da Hobo]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

I agree 100% MB. I've noticed increased production from my ACE250 for the first couple of hours after a bettery change.

Hmm, all very interesting and "Yes," weak batteries do give decreased performance, just like low voltage in your house gives you dim lites but with a detector, to a reasonable extent, that is expected and designed for.

As for the ACE 250 and it's batteries . . . I have a 250 and get the same performance at full charge (as indicted on my display) as I do when it indicates 30% charge.

The mystery goes on . . .

Hobo

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

Oh, by-the-way, thanks Mirage for all your work on this.

And the others who also contributed...Thanks!

Right or wrong it was a mighty good ride! 8)

But the subject continues.....

 

[froggy38383]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

I agree with you as far as the DeLeon. Performance degrades once the batteries start losing their charge.

 

[Dave N Japan]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

Yes, Agree here too, Over the 20 plus years this has always come into play!
of course it depends like some people say on the detector! When some say half bat left it means you have some time and others it means you are very near the end.. The other day my 3D started to act up and become unstable!
The battery's on the meter said 25% left ,but that meant they were gone.

It has to have some effect and I think that all depends on the detector! I would say if it is a good area, At least hit it once with a fresh set of battery's.
Anyway, Nice finds!

 

[Michigan Badger]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

Yes, Agree here too, Over the 20 plus years this has always come into play!

I first learned this back in 1968 with my very first detector, a Whites CoinMaster IV.

Years ago they used to print this in the Treasure Magazines.

I was out today and all of a sudden my detector started acting a little strange. The TID meter wanted to jump around and I had to turn the sensitivity down a few notches. I checked the TID battery readout and sure enough, it showed down 1 bar on battery condition. At 2 bars down the batteries go in the trash can. I can keep hunting if all I want are hunks of scrap iron.

There was a time when I thought this was due to ground mineralization or electrical interference. Then I tried replacing the batteries. This usually solves the problem.

How has the hunting been for you Dave?

Badger

 

[ringding]

Re: MUST READ! Why You're Not Finding Stuff & Today's Digs

I think Michigan Badger is on to something. But as others have said it may differ from machine to machine. From now on, when I am at an old site I am going to use fresh batteries and save the slightly used ones for the modern playground where I expect to find only clad.

I know there are some engineers that build metal detectors and read this forum. I have a suggestion. You should design a metal detector with small solar panels. The machine would not be able to operate on those alone, but it would extend the life of rechargeable batteries.

I remember spending almost $5 apiece for a couple of Titanium 9V batteries thinking that I could use them and they would last forever. When I got around to putting them in the low battery light said that they were dead. Evidently, people don't like to spend a lot of money on batteries and so they may spend months and months on the shelf before someone buys them. By then, they're dead.