My 1st Barber Quarter!!! Is it Counterfeit???

ModernMiner

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My 1st Barber Quarter! Is it Counterfeit? **UPDATED**

Well Folks, in my ten years of detecting I’ve never dug a Barber Quarter.
Not sure if this crusty example qualifies or not? This is really The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly of coin finds.

I went out today knocking on some doors around town trying to score a place to detect.
After about eight houses with no one home, I finally got permission to detect only the front yard (back yard had a dog) of a 1901 house.
After digging nothing but crappe’ for about an hour, I got a signal under a large pine out in the front corner of the lawn. It wasn’t even a good signal, but by this time I was desperate. The dirt was very dry and the pine roots were everywhere. I kept at it, and kept at it until I finally got the item out of the hole. Unfortunately, it snapped in half due to yours truly prying away at the roots. I didn’t have my pin pointer today, because I had to send it back. :BangHead:

I thought I had dug some sort of aluminum token at first, but it weighed too much to be aluminum. I had no idea what I had so I put it in my pouch. When I got home I cleaned it off with some water and saw a reeded edge and a date of “1895(?)” on it. I saw “Quarter Dollar” on it and some other details but still had no idea? :dontknow: I pulled out my trusty coin book and figured out it was a Barber Quarter! Yahoo!!!

Now for the questions:
1) Why does this coin not look like silver? It can be cracked in half like old pewter or lead. It has more of a white chalky appearance.

2) Why is it larger in diameter than a silver Washington quarter? They should both be 24.3mm.

3) The diameter of the Barber is larger than the Washington, but as you can see, it weighs LESS. Should be 6.25 g.

4) Was this a counterfeit coin, or was it toasted in a fire perhaps? Would a silver coin grow to this size and also crumble?

5) Does it look like 1895? 1893? Or 1899? I think it’s 1895.

Sorry for the long-winded post, but I’m not sure if this coin should count as my first ever Barber quarter?

Thanks for looking,
MM

11/17/2013 ***UPDATE***
O.K. Folks, I received the silver test kit in the mail and conducted the test to find out if this crusty looking over-sized Barber quarter was:
1) Previously in a fire causing this kind of damage, or
2) A counterfeit made of some other type of metal.
Drum roll please..........
Actually, I didn't have a drum, but attached is a video of the actual test done, and a photo.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v4wzfAKuqug&feature=youtu.be

Thank to all of you for your guesses, info, and input on this mystery coin.
I guess I CAN finally cross a real Barber quarter off my list.
-MM-
:thumbsup:

11/18/2013 ***Another UPDATE***
Well, here's the results of me filing two areas on the Barber. I filed the inside edge and a corner of the back of the coin. I included a filed down Merc dime for a color comparison, since it's tough to tell in the photos.
I guess now we know what can happen to a toasted silver coin. It's kind of like a apple turnover. Crusty on the outside and sweet in the middle.
tongue3.gif

-MM-
 

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ModernMiner

ModernMiner

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Argentium

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Well , interesting that it tested silver - but remember Nick made a good case for it still being a counterfeit even if silver ! My question is
now that we know it's silver - are you willing to take a file to the edge just to see if it's still possible to get that silver look thru abrasion
in contrast to the cracked edges that show rotted crumbly (just curious )
 

pepperj

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It be interesting if the center is silver also.
 

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ModernMiner

ModernMiner

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Well , interesting that it tested silver - but remember Nick made a good case for it still being a counterfeit even if silver ! My question is
now that we know it's silver - are you willing to take a file to the edge just to see if it's still possible to get that silver look thru abrasion
in contrast to the cracked edges that show rotted crumbly (just curious )

Heck yes I'm willing to do that. This coin it toast anyways. I'll try that tomorrow and update you. :thumbsup:
I still can't get over how much larger the coin it compared to a real quarter.
-MM-
 

Nick A

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Well , interesting that it tested silver - but remember Nick made a good case for it still being a counterfeit even if silver ! My question is
now that we know it's silver - are you willing to take a file to the edge just to see if it's still possible to get that silver look thru abrasion
in contrast to the cracked edges that show rotted crumbly (just curious )

True, it could still be counterfeit, but who would make an oversized counterfeit from flaky silver? That would be about useless to try to pass off. I'm glad it tested silver, and feel confident it is a mint issued quarter with some severe and unusual post-mint damage. I wish we could know the story behind it...but some things are meant to remain mysteries. Congrats on a truly unique find and thanks for sharing the experience with all of us. This one certainly has been different and way more fun and memorable than if you'd just found a plain old Barber quarter.
 

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ModernMiner

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True, it could still be counterfeit, but who would make an oversized counterfeit from flaky silver? That would be about useless to try to pass off. I'm glad it tested silver, and feel confident it is a mint issued quarter with some severe and unusual post-mint damage. I wish we could know the story behind it...but some things are meant to remain mysteries. Congrats on a truly unique find and thanks for sharing the experience with all of us. This one certainly has been different and way more fun and memorable than if you'd just found a plain old Barber quarter.

Well said Nick. :thumbsup: Thanks so much for all your help.
Hopefully my next one shines. :laughing7:
-Doug-
 

Garbagebill

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Nice find, I'd rather find a unique barber then a common barber! Way to go, HH!
 

artyfacts

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Good that you found your first Barber... Bad that its broken... Nothing ugly about it ...
 

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Well , interesting that it tested silver - but remember Nick made a good case for it still being a counterfeit even if silver ! My question is
now that we know it's silver - are you willing to take a file to the edge just to see if it's still possible to get that silver look thru abrasion
in contrast to the cracked edges that show rotted crumbly
(just curious )

Well, here's the results of me filing two areas on the Barber. I filed the inside edge and a corner of the back of the coin. I included a filed down Merc dime for a color comparison, since it's tough to tell in the photos.
I guess now we know what can happen to a toasted silver coin. It's kind of like a apple turnover. Crusty on the outside and sweet in the middle. :tongue3:
-MM-
 

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Argentium

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Fascinating ! Thank You for indulging my curiosity - So we apparently have a genuine coin that got cooked in such a manner as to cause the
diameter to expand massively - numerous cracks to occur , and the exposed broken edges assumed a rotted flakey appearance - I would
be tempted to attribute this degradation to exposure to chemicals in the soil (fertilizers perhaps). Some things we cannot know !
(PS. At least you found a Barber quarter - I have not )
 

MUD(S.W.A.T)

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Cool thread !

I first thought it was a lead counterfeit. It was white you said it was was heavy, cracked I thought surely lead. :icon_thumleft: Then I see you did the silver test and it tested silver. Then I thought, what would make silver do that? :icon_scratch: So I searched for...
"What makes silver brittle?" In the first result a few comments down I found this comment...

[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif](Silver has a crystalline structure to it. If you stress it, it gets out of it's proper structure and fractures as a result. If you gently heat it to the annealing stage it's crystals line up in a happy fashion.[/FONT]
Similarly, if you get it too hot and crash cool it, you disrupt the orderly organization of it's structure and that's how it can become brittle again.)

This could occur in a house fire, when heated and put out with cold water from the fire trucks. Because of this I'm going to say its a genuine barber quarter.
So congratulations on your first, I've yet to find one myself. :notworthy:

Keep @ it and HH !! :hello2:
 

Roger Mn.

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Back in the 1895 old grandpa was out in the yard planting a pine tree when lightning struck the barber quarter in his pocket. Now that crusty apple turnover stuff on the outside of that coin is !!!!!!!!!!:tongue3:
 

coinman123

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Not necessarily a 100% test. Remember the price of silver was still less than the value of the coin at that time, so you could actually still make money by making fake coins out of real silver then. When the Sherman Silver Act was repealed in 1893 the price of silver dropped from .83/oz to .62/oz.

Free silver - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
 

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ModernMiner

ModernMiner

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Fascinating ! Thank You for indulging my curiosity - So we apparently have a genuine coin that got cooked in such a manner as to cause the
diameter to expand massively - numerous cracks to occur , and the exposed broken edges assumed a rotted flakey appearance - I would
be tempted to attribute this degradation to exposure to chemicals in the soil (fertilizers perhaps). Some things we cannot know !
(PS. At least you found a Barber quarter - I have not )

I'm glad you asked me to go the extra step and file it. This has been a very interesting and informative experience. :occasion14:
Thanks again,
MM
 

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ModernMiner

ModernMiner

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Cool thread !

I first thought it was a lead counterfeit. It was white you said it was was heavy, cracked I thought surely lead. :icon_thumleft: Then I see you did the silver test and it tested silver. Then I thought, what would make silver do that? :icon_scratch: So I searched for...
"What makes silver brittle?" In the first result a few comments down I found this comment...

(Silver has a crystalline structure to it. If you stress it, it gets out of it's proper structure and fractures as a result. If you gently heat it to the annealing stage it's crystals line up in a happy fashion.
Similarly, if you get it too hot and crash cool it, you disrupt the orderly organization of it's structure and that's how it can become brittle again.)

This could occur in a house fire, when heated and put out with cold water from the fire trucks. Because of this I'm going to say its a genuine barber quarter.
So congratulations on your first, I've yet to find one myself. :notworthy:

Keep @ it and HH !! :hello2:

Great info. Thanks MUD. :thumbsup:
I guess if I was going to find a Barber quarter at least this one ranks up there as unusual at least.
-MM-
 

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