Oak Island the Strange, the Bizarre, and Maybe the "Truth!

What is this manuscript and its date, and the source of the posted photo?

Coelbren Y Beirdd | Druidic Dawn

*NOTE* Franklin removed the post to which I responded.
That post contained a photo of an Medieval manuscript allegedly showing the Coelbren alphabet.
One can only guess at why he removed that post.
 

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franklin said:
You need to read more and learn real history instead of reading wikepedia.
The 12 Tribes of Wales, the 12 Tribes of the Romans and the 12 Tribes of Israel are all kin to each other.
And yes they had ships thousands of ships that sailed to the City of Troy in around 700 BC but they were not Roman Ships.
Over 200,000 sailed to Troy on about 2,000 ships.
Then over 200,000 sailed to Italy on about 2,000 ships and then 1/2 or over 100,000 sailed to Wales on about 1,000 ships.
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Scholars dated the founding of Rome as April 21, 753 BCE, and you stated that the Romans didn't build their ships, who did?
What were the type of these 2000 ships?
Scholars have dated the writing of Homer's "ILLIAD" 750BCE , based on the Greek sacking of Troy Vlla 1220 BCE or another by Greeks, 1184 BCE.
What was the purpose of these three different tribes sailing to Troy in 2000 ships?
What the source of this information?

*NOTE* In 700BCE Israel, Wales and the Romans did NOT have these 2000 ships to sail to Troy.
The Phoenicians of Palestine had fewer than 800 ships in 700BCE, 50 foot single sail Biremes for trade and war.
 

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I just noticed the quote stating 200,000 sailed to Troy on about 2,000 ships.

That was long before Rome. The Trojan/Greek war took place in 1260 BC to 1180 BC. If, that is, you believe it ever occurred. We found Troy - but evidence of the War is lacking. The City burned in 1180 BC - so if it occurred or was the cause that is the latest date. If the Romans showed up 400 years later they didn't find much to do.

No Romans were involved in the War.
 

Charlie P. (NY) said:
I just noticed the quote stating 200,000 sailed to Troy on about 2,000 ships.

That was long before Rome. The Trojan/Greek war took place in 1260 BC to 1180 BC. If, that is, you believe it ever occurred. We found Troy - but evidence of the War is lacking. The City burned in 1180 BC - so if it occurred or was the cause that is the latest date. If the Romans showed up 400 years later they didn't find much to do.

No Romans were involved in the War.
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The Trojan War was 650BC.
 

franklin said:
The Trojan War was 650BC.
Click to expand...

Interesting, since Homer wrote the "ILLIAD" which was about the Trojan War in 750BCE, 100 years before you claimed it occurred.
How did you arrive at this 650BCE date?
Is this also a part of your claim that those three different 12tribes sailed to Troy in 2000 ships in 700BCE?
PS: You didn't provide the source of this information.
 

Smithbrown said:
Latest idea is that King Arthur was a Pict from Rhynie- certain has a little more merit than than Wilson and Blackett's racist nonsense. England's famous King Arthur was actually Scottish, historian claims | Metro News
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Gidday amigo

Here we have the same problem the article states the hypothesis was taken from the Welsh triads. But which version?

The earliest surviving collection of the Welsh Triads is bound in the manuscript Peniarth 16, now at the National Library of Wales, which has been dated to the third quarter of the 13th century and contains 46 of the 96 triads collated by Rachel Bromwich. Other important manuscripts include Peniarth 45 (written about 1275), and the pair White Book of Rhydderch (Welsh: Llyfr Gwyn Rhydderch) and Red Book of Hergest (Welsh: Llyfr Coch Hergest), which share a common version clearly different from the version behind the collections in the Peniarth manuscripts.

To complicate things The 18th-century Welsh antiquarian Iolo Morganwg compiled a collection of triads, which he claimed to have taken from his own collection of manuscripts. Some of his triads are similar to those found in the medieval manuscripts, but some are unique to Morganwg, and are widely believed to have been of his own invention.

Edward Williams, better known by his bardic name Iolo Morganwg ([ˈjɔlɔ mɔrˈɡanʊɡ]; 10 March 1747 – 18 December 1826), was a Welsh antiquarian, poet and collector of ill repute. He had been seen as an expert collector of Medieval Welsh literature, but it emerged after his death that he had forged several manuscripts, notably some of the Third Series of Welsh Triads. Even so, he had a lasting impact on Welsh culture, notably in founding the Gorsedd. The philosophy he spread in his forgeries had a big impact on early neo-Druidism. His bardic name is Welsh for "Iolo of Glamorgan.

So we have a persistent problem many versions of the welsh triads are contaminated by Edward Williams, better known by his bardic name Iolo Morganwg confirmation bias towards neo druidism and the fact is The Coelbren y Beirdd (English: "Bards' lot") is a script created in the late eighteenth century by the literary forger Edward Williams, best known as Iolo Morganwg.

Such was the extent of his forgery that, even into the 21st century, some of his tampered versions of medieval Welsh texts are better known than the original versions.

Here is book below of the welsh triads but the question is it tainted by Edwards Williams forgeries? The Four ancient books of Wales containing the Cymric poems. by William Forbes Skene 1868

https://www.google.com.au/books/edi...aini/7uEIAAAAQAAJ?hl=en&gbpv=1&kptab=overview


So the only solution is to go to the earliest texts which as far as we know is in the national library of Wales With manuscripts that predate Edwards Williams forgeries.

https://www.library.wales/collections/learn-more/manuscripts/the-peniarth-manuscripts


Peniarth 16 The manuscript is made up of five fragments. The main texts include the Credo, with a commentary; the prophecy of Merlin, with a commentary; a version of Macsen Wledig; triads; and Bonedd y Saint. F. iv is from a musical manuscript. Here is piece of it below it is the earliest version below.

merlin.JPG

Does the scottish claim hold up? I suggest those who are interested in getting the facts see if the confirms the claims Bullen also cites in one article medieval Welsh triad which states:

“Three Tribal Thrones of the Island of Prydai: Arthur the Chief Lord at Menevia, and David the chief bishop, and Maelgwn Gwynedd the chief elder. Arthur the chief lord at Kelliwic in Cornwall, and Bishop Betwini the chief bishop, and Caradawg Vreichvras the chief elder. Arthur the chief lord in Penrhionyd in the north, and Cyndeyrn Garthwys the chief bishop, and Gurthmwl Guledic the chief elder.”

Another article states quite different.

The text states: ‘Arthur the chief lord in Penrhionyd in the north, and Cyndeyrn Garthwys the chief bishop, and Gurthmwl Guledic the chief elder.’

Mr Bullen specialises in historical languages and the interpretation of ancient manuscripts. He said the Penrhionyd referred to is actually Rhynie in Aberdeenshire, where he claims Arthur spent seven years as King of the Picts from 539-526.

So which version is true if any?

Can the name Penrhionyd be found in PENARTH 16 MANICRIPT?

For those interested you can look for yourselves.

Crow
 

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I say for other people to look as old crows eyes straining through ancient documents are almost shot.

Crow
 

franklin said:
The Trojan War was 650BC.
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More alternative fabricated pseudo history from Wilson and Blackett's 2010 self published book, "THE TROJAN WAR OF 650 BC", takes the 9th century created legend by Welsh monk, Nennius' of Brutus of Troy, a descendent of Aeneas, of Virgil's "Aeneid", as the founder and first king of England.
Of course, all this history is written on potshards on (drum roll) in the Coelbren alphabet.
As usual of their works, No real history to be found in this book, just more of their mismatched crazy quilt of misinformation.
 

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franklin said:
The Trojan War was 650BC.
Click to expand...

  • 1750 BCE - 1300 BCE. Troy VI - probable Troy of Homer's Iliad. City at its zenith.
  • 1334 BCE. Trojan War, according to Duris of Samos.
  • c. 1250 BCE. Trojan War, according to Herodotus.
  • 1184 BCE. Trojan War, according to Eratosthenes.
Click to expand...

So your 650 BCE is not substantiated by earlier accounts or archeologists.
 

Based on that info it doesn't look like anyone knows when it was!!! What's 500-600 years amongst friends right....:occasion14:
 

n2mini said:
Based on that info it doesn't look like anyone knows when it was!!! What's 500-600 years amongst friends right....:occasion14:
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What you failed to comprehend in your reply, is the 650BCE date is 100 years AFTER the date when Homer wrote the "ILLIAD" about the Trojan War.
 

franklin said:
... My information comes from documented old Welsh books which you have never read.
Click to expand...
Neither have you except for the Coelbren "translations" by Alan Wilson of Iolo Morganwn's forged Welsh manuscripts that appear in his and Blackett pseudo history books.
Those charlatans of fake history in their "THE TROJAN WAR OF 650BC" claim Coelbren writing appear on jugs and potshards throughout the Mediterranean prove that the Welsh are one of the Lost Tribes of Israel.
*NOTE* The British Academic Community of Historians and other related disciplines, declared Williams/Morganwn 18th century created Coelbren alphabet a hoax in 1993.
 

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MikeN said:
Oak Island .... where they found a bone of Middle-East origin buried deep underground. What if they find an ancient coin with Arabic inscription in the future?

17th-century pirates might have stashed Middle Eastern coins in New England
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Gidday amigo

If it is so Will there be claimed as proof the Arabs discovered America first?

How many of you out there reading this over the years had had a foreign coin mixed in with your change?

How many many of you unintentionally lost coins out of pockets over the years?

America was essentially part of the British Empire in the 18th century before the war of independence. Sailors traveled between America, Britain and Europe and other far flung corners of the globe. Money currency gets picked up and shifted all over the globe. It would be not uncommon for sailor to bring home strange currency from far away locations and end up mixed up in the change of the general population of the Americas and in due course lost.

A classic example my sister in Australia in 1978 received in her change of Australia 20 cent coins an American 1880 silver dollar. Does that constitute proof that Americans had a colony in Australia or even buried treasure somewhere? Of course it does not?

Since Oak island has over the years been visited by thousands of tourists. How many of them unintentionally or even intentionally lost coins at the site only wash down into the deeper excavations. To be uncovered today as a find of significance?

pit-2.jpg

Is is easy to find objects in unexpected places its even easier to take that find entirely out of context.

Crow
 

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Of course I should add a coin or two can explained in that context if they found several hundred coin that would indicate a hoard thus changing the context entirely.

Crow
 

n2mini said:
Based on that info it doesn't look like anyone knows when it was!!! What's 500-600 years amongst friends right....:occasion14:
Click to expand...

No one even knows if it was. There is no archeological evidence for a battle or siege at Troy. Might just have been a fire.

PS - that first, earliest, date was when Troy was at it's peak. 500 years before it burned. That may be what Homer based his Illiad Saga on. Not the later Troy that had to go out and steal women and liked wooden horses.
 

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