Oak Island the Strange, the Bizarre, and Maybe the "Truth!

[Charlie P. (NY)]

And geologist E. Rudolph Faribault (I mentioned earlier).

 

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[Tom_in_CA]

..... all we have are a lot of people doing a lot of digging, and finding a lot of nothing.

Which doesn't mean there's no treasure. Or at least that there wasn't treasure in the past.

Instead it means: A little more left, right, or deeper, or someone already got it. It NEVER means there wasn't or isn't a treasure.

 

[xaos]

Here is the "treasure"

when fooling the masses (recent TV included)

someone has made over $100 Million in advertising the continued search.

(just like Smith started)

Like the 49's...was the money made in the suppliers in Seattle?

 

[PirateLabs]

Someone, I am sorry I forgot who because it was many pages back, made a great point. The story/legend has it that the Templars created this elaborate multi-layered pit complete with finger drains arranged in an elaborate booby-trap in order to protect the treasure buried hundreds of feet below, which is rumored to contain the Ark Of The Covenant (among other priceless objects) yet they "accidentally" left a block and tackle hanging from a tree branch right over the top of this incredibly secret location? Any group with the intelligence to create such a complex buried vault as there is rumored to be would surely remember to cover their tracks and remove ALL equipment used in its creation right? This sounds more like something some drunk Pirate's might have done after burying a simple chest a few feet deep which actually may have been dug up by those boys/men as we have discussed. This is the only scenario that makes some sense to me at this point in time although, I am always interested in seeing what happens in this saga and have an open mind. Having grown up spending time near the N.J. coast I can tell you that even blocks away from the ocean, you only had to dig down some 15-20 feet before you would hit water so I am not sold that the water is not there naturally and not a man-man booby trap...but, I have to admit...seeing those rocks that appeared to be a French Drain in Smith's Cove was interesting...I just think they were made for another purpose. I still find all of this fascinating however and it is interesting to hear other's views on what may or may not have been, is, or is not there on this island.

Bill

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... left a block and tackle hanging from a tree branch right over the top of this incredibly secret location? Any group with the intelligence to create such a complex buried vault as there is rumored to be would surely remember to cover their tracks and remove ALL equipment used in its creation right? ....

I have no doubt that the "faithful" could/would find some remote contingent reason where: Yes, they did exactly that.

If you added in an elephant to the legend, they would find a way where that too could be explained too. With some logical reason why the elephant was needed ,or how it got there, etc....

You have to remember: You have to START with the assumption that "a treasure is there". Once you do that, you can eventually find a way (standing on one foot and squinting real hard) to make any of the details, or odd-ball stuff found to play-right-into the narrative.

 

[xaos]

but, I have to admit...seeing those rocks that appeared to be a French Drain in Smith's Cove was interesting...I just think they were made for another purpose.

From post 1379...the alleged french drains have been dug up and plugged back to the early 1800's attempts..

Looking at these images, the excavation reports, and the reports on the use of explosives...

Post 1379...

1909 and 1931...

A sample of the digging, coffer dams, shafts, trenches, shoring, blasting, and other works...late 1800's, all before 1900. with references to excavation encountered from the early 1800's

1850

Under the rocks are five 8-inch wide drains of flat stones over pairs of parallel lines of stones converging to a single larger drain at the high tide line, leading inland. As the drains are excavated, they are found to slope down toward the shore.

1861
April 3
The Oak Island Association syndicate is formed, based on the Truro syndicate. Included are Adam Tupper, Jotham McCully, James McNutt, Jefferson McDonald, Samuel Retti, and George Mitchell. They make a deal with land owner Anthony Graves, to give him one-third of any treasure recovered. The company issues 100 shares at $20 each. [4.48] (1860 [5.50]) (1863 [7.37])
(month unknown)
The Oak Island Association resumes the search. The Money Pit is cleared to 88 feet, encountering no water. A new shaft (5B) 25 feet away is dug to 120 feet, with no sign of the flood tunnel. [4.48] [5.50] (1863 [1.194] [7.38])
Another shaft (No. 6) is dug 18 feet west of Money Pit. At 118 feet, a horizontal tunnel toward the Money Pit is started. At 17 feet toward the main shaft, water and mud again rush in. A pumping gin is employed, but stopped after three days pumping with no progress in keeping the water out. [4.50] [5.50]
A tunnel is dug from the 120 foot shaft, 25 feet away from the Money Pit. Again, as they get close to the main pit, uncontrollable water rushes in. They try bailing the three shafts using four 70-gallon buckets with all 63 men and 33 horses. They abandon this after a couple days. [4.50] [5.51]
Two men go into a connecting tunnel toward the Money Pit to clear out the mud. A big crash is heard, the men barely escape, and water rushes in. The water level is lowered again, then another big crash is heard, then collapse of timbering within Money Pit, leaving only the upper 30 feet. Now, the bottom is sounded at 102 feet, 14 feet lower than previous. Some artifacts are recovered from the inrush of debris, but no treasure. Artifacts recovered: bottom of yellow painted barrel or dish, stick of oak timber 3.5 feet long, piece of juniper with bark on and cut at each end, spruce slab with mining auger hole in it. [4.50] [5.51] [7.38]
The Oak Island Association raises another $2000. [4.53]

September 30
The Novascotian publishes an article "The Oak Island Folly". [3.43] [5.206]

1862
(Spring) The Oak Island Association digs a shaft (No. 7) close to the west of the Money Pit. It is dug to 107 feet, using a pump to keep it free of water. At 90 feet tools from 1850 Truro work are found; at 100 feet tools of 1804 Onslow are found. No sign of the water tunnel is found down to 107 feet. Then the Money Pit is dug and sides cribbed to 103 feet, but pumping cannot keep up with water to dig further. [4.54] [5.52] [7.39]
A new shaft is dug inland from Smith's Cove, down to 50 feet, no flood tunnel found. Tunnels are dug from the bottom in various directions, but encounter no flood tunnel. [4.54] [5.52] [7.39]
The box drains of Smith's Cove are uncovered and 30-40 feet are removed and packed full of clay. This reduces the water flow into the Money Pit, but the sea soon clears out the clay. [4.55] [5.52] [7.39] Box drains removed?

There is very little of the island that has not been excavated to 150 to 200 feet.

This area was the end of the glacial epoch, the terminal moraine, so the layers of rock, till, and other glacially transported materials would make for uneven layers of compacted, loose, and other substrate materials.

This was not the former bottom of the ocean, exposed with the lower sea levels we have now post glacial period, with nice horizontal layers. These are glacial deposits carved to bedrock, the terminal moraine.

 

[xaos]

Someone, I am sorry I forgot who because it was many pages back, made a great point......yet they "accidentally" left a block and tackle hanging from a tree branch right over the top of this incredibly secret location?

Post 1608

Someone went to great lengths, digging deep tunnels and traps to flood a chamber.

Engineering that would be very difficult, even in modern times...

But....

left a ships block and tackle in a tree above the shaft?
Left markers at intervals that state treasure is below.
and artefacts strewn all over the place

The Knights Templar?
The Masons? (why would Masons help find a treasure when they were guarding a secret?)

Lets not forget, the well known scam team of Smith and Young...tarred and feathered, all the way to the salt lake.

Afterall, they do have the golden tablets in the basement, and of course, the Arc of the covenant is buried at Oak Island!?!?!

Smiths, what 34th wife, the sister of Young, lived on Oak Island and was the leader of a group of investors to excavate for the "treasure".

No coincidence there.

 

[etex]

I have no doubt that the "faithful" could/would find some remote contingent reason where: Yes, they did exactly that.

If you added in an elephant to the legend, they would find a way where that too could be explained too. With some logical reason why the elephant was needed ,or how it got there, etc....

You have to remember: You have to START with the assumption that "a treasure is there". Once you do that, you can eventually find a way (standing on one foot and squinting real hard) to make any of the details, or odd-ball stuff found to play-right-into the narrative.

Could the coconut fiber have been elephant feed?

 

[lokiblossom]

Could the coconut fiber have been elephant feed?

Probably not, but at least you admit that it is coconut fibre!

Cheers, Loki

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Touché.

Now there is good debating without necessarily agreement.

 

[b3y0nd3r]

Which version of the original story do you consider to be true, and why do you reject all the other versions of the original story?

I expect that Daniel McGinnis/Donald MacInnes & Co. actually saw a depression, actually dug a hole, and actually found stone & wood debris in the hole. But accepting the "story" as largely true (even if the details are not) doesn't extrapolate to a buried treasure, any more than any of the other ground depressions in the area would. Beyond the original story, all we have are a lot of people doing a lot of digging, and finding a lot of nothing. And yet, it's time to discuss who built this and how? Who built what?



Also corroborated by Woods Hole Oceanographic Inst.

Oh about that.

I have read the 1995 report(twice) and I saw nothing about "sink holes". You can read the report for yourself but their summary says it best:

"The WHOI program was directed towards observing the geological phenomena at Oak Island, and determining the likelihood that such observations could represent natural versus human influenced processes. previous observations of dye dispersal, underground(groundwater) fluid flow, offshore stone structures, and the like have been poorly documented scientifically; the present proposal was to provide scientific documentation of their existence or non-existence. and of their origin. This project was purely based on hydrology and oceanography, and provided no specific or original archeological(historical or pre-historic) or historical investigation.

We had less than one month to prepare for this field program, due to the protracted negotiations about the scope of the work. Thus we were unable to fulfill all elements of the desired work in this time period."

In other words, their tests were inconclusive.

 

[PirateLabs]

In other words, their tests were inconclusive.

Didn't the folks testing the coconut fibers say the same thing? Inconclusive?

Bill

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Didn't the folks testing the coconut fibers say the same thing? Inconclusive?...

Perhaps. But when that happens, we employ selective memory (subconscious memory bias). Ie.: Forget or toss out the tests that cast doubt on treasure, and bolster the tests that confirm a treasure.

 

[lokiblossom]

Perhaps. But when that happens, we employ selective memory (subconscious memory bias). Ie.: Forget or toss out the tests that cast doubt on treasure, and bolster the tests that confirm a treasure.

If you are referring to me perhaps you should discuss it with me before putting statements out there about my subconscious! What you are describing is actually lying is it not?
Cheers, Loki


Cheers, Loki

 

[Tom_in_CA]

.... What you are describing is actually lying is it not? ....

Two things:

1) No, I was not referring to you or anything you said. I was referring, in general, to the subconscious practice that ALL people tend to do: Remember the things that bolster our notions, and forget/dismiss the things that point away from our notions. So too would/could the skeptic be guilty of the same thing.

2) No, that's not the same as "lying". Notice the word "Subconscious". As opposed to "Conscious". Meaning : No one is willfully lying. And we are all quite sincere when it happens.

 

[lokiblossom]

Didn't the folks testing the coconut fibers say the same thing? Inconclusive?

Bill

No, all the tests were not inconclusive, but they were not all dutifully documented! The datings were documented, but of the last one by the Lagina's, we have not seen the documentation. Btw, nothing going on in my subconscious here!


Cheers, Loki

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... Btw, nothing going on in my subconscious here! ....

Well, .... not saying "you" here individually, but: subconscious means SUBconscious. Meaning: of course you won't be aware of when it's happening.

So of course it will always appear to the individual as if that simply could not be happening.

 

[lokiblossom]

Well, .... not saying "you" here individually, but: subconscious means SUBconscious. Meaning: of course you won't be aware of when it's happening.

That was meant to be a funny!

Cheers, Loki

 

[b3y0nd3r]

Perhaps. But when that happens, we employ selective memory (subconscious memory bias). Ie.: Forget or toss out the tests that cast doubt on treasure, and bolster the tests that confirm a treasure.

You have said several times that you admire my position in this debate. Now you accuse me of having a faulty memory when the discussion Carl and myself were having was about sink holes.

Very well switching gears to their report on coconut fibers(paraphrasing):

They tested two samples:

First sample was dated 1229 ad + or - 70 years

Second sample was dated 1140 + or - 30 years

The samples were degraded to 5% carbon availability and therefore they had trouble conclusively confirming whether is was coconut fiber or not. However, I must note that both doctors on the onset felt both samples were coconut fiber.

The report goes on and I quote:

"The coconut fibre, if verified as we believe it will be, may have reached Oak island through four primary pathways:

i: Planted on the island by previous searchers
ii:natural transport by gulf stream and inshore currents
iii: dunnage discharge at Oak Island by a previous ship
iv: brought and used by ancient voyagers for flood tunnel purposes"

I will leave that as is.

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Please post the links when you quote - I'd be interested in following up on "iv" to see how they arrived at fibers incorporated into flood tunnels built "by ancient voyagers". Say comparisons to known sites that had similar structures in other parts of the world.

And who this individual was that was an expert on radiology, botany and hydraulic archeology.