Oak Island: Was something even there.

[Robot]

How Can I Agree...When You Are Wrong!

If you have failed to agree with me, then .... by definition, you are

A) Biased,

B) mean and have an anger problem.

C) have a failure to talk about things in a gentlemanly fashion,

D) haven't given good enough reasons yet (I define what qualifies as "good reasons")

Have I made myself clear ?

 

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[Honest Samuel]

I watch the show tonight, send a diver down, then send a second diver down with a detector. Now we have to wait until next week, to find out anything is there.

 

[gemee]

I watch the show tonight, send a diver down, then send a second diver down with a detector. Now we have to wait until next week, to find out anything is there.

No Sam,..I will save you the wait. Nothing is found.

 

[Dave Rishar]

Hello All, Saying the Money Pit is a "Bust", what reasons have we for the stones found over the century?

An excellent question! And I do appreciate a questioning attitude.

The equilateral 10' triangle made of round beach stones pointing towards the "Money Pit" as well as a line of stones going thru and pointing due north?
Also the large "Drilled" stone found 50' North of the "Money Pit" and a similar "Drilled" stone more than 400' east? All found in the late 1890's.

Let me answer your question with another question, as much as I hate to do that. (Note that this "answer" of mine applies to all other potential markers as well.) If I were going to go through the trouble of digging a 200' deep hole at the rear end of nowhere because I wanted to be absolutely sure that nobody stole it from me, why the hell would I leave treasure markers all over the damned island pointing at it, and obvious ones at that? The same reason that I'd leave evidence of a hoist over where I buried it. It all seems a bit silly when stated like this, doesn't it?

What reasons are there for the discovery of "Nolan's Cross" found in the '80's. 5 large cone shaped granite boulders and one of sand stone in the middle seemingly aligned symmetrically to form a cross and showing geometric measurements? Possibly alluding to the connection between the Masons & Templars?

Again, I'll answer your question with another question. Why wasn't this cross found until the '80's? We've had centuries of people fishing there, living there, and digging unproductive holes there. That island has been logged out more than once. How was this cross missed for so long?

Explain several "Mosaic" marked stones that were found by Gilbert Hedden at Joudrey's Cove in 1936 with a number of different mosaic symbols?

No idea. What do you think that they mean?

What about the granite bolder with the letter "G" in a rectangle supposedly representing mosaic "Geometry"?

Actually, my brother's middle name begins with a G and he's quite the practical joker. I suspect that it was him. (Okay, not really. But your claim of "geometry" is just as valid as my claim of "George.") Perhaps there was an earlier settler there named George? Who knows? It doesn't mean much by itself, one way or the other.

Also there was the "Heart" stone, possibly hand made. Was it to mark a treasure?

"...possibly hand made. Was it to mark a treasure?" Your words, not mine. Read them again and think about what you just said there, and what this implies.

Were all these stones placed just to reinforce the Scam / Hoax many of you all propose or was there indeed a mosaic presence?

I have no idea where they were placed there, or when. Do you know when they were placed there? Do you know for a fact that they were placed there?

It seems to me this would be a large amount of work to go thru just to support a hoax and if the cross was indeed part of the hoax wouldn't the hoaxer have leaked it out before the 1980's?

A larger amount of work than it would have taken to dig a hole 200 feet deep without anyone finding out and tunneling to it from the coast in order to booby trap it? Such industrious people surely would have taken a few minutes to ensure that they didn't leave clues all over the island, including (if the legend is to be believed) one directly over the hole where they buried it.

The idea that someone buried something of value there and then spent considerable time and effort to make sure that any rando passing through the area would have a reason to go looking for said item of value doesn't make sense to me. If one is convinced that there's treasure there, they're likely convinced that there will be markers proving it and they will eventually start finding those markers, one way or the other. The question now is, were those markers placed there by people trying to hide their treasure, well-meaning treasure recovery companies that were running out of money and needed something to entice a few more investors in, ill-meaning scammers, hoaxers, bored settlers, or were they even placed at all?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

No Sam,..I will save you the wait. Nothing is found.

Sshheeesssk, what a killjoy. They're going to be laughing at you all the way to the bank !

 

[n2mini]

The cross has probably been seen by 100's of people, ( 1 rock at a time of course ) but unless you see it from the air, ( or do a survey and draw it out as Nolan did ) you have no idea it could form a cross, or an arrow for that matter, depends how many lines you connect. By connecting the tip of the cross to each extending sideline... Anyone figured out where that arrow points? ( No I haven't )

 

[lokiblossom]

Loki, it's all in forum banter. No sarcasm or mean-ness meant. Other than to put a "face" on an example. Sorry for coming down hard and condescending in tone.

Yes we've eaten at Crabby Jim's . What brings you to Monterey ? Next time you're here , drop me a line ! We have lots of treasure legends in this area too. And the pre-history indians around here left "holes in rocks". And arranged them sometimes in patterns that still exist to this day perhaps (in the back-country if you know where to look). But they do not indicate any "treasure".

I have had several business dealings in Ca. and have also vacationed there, always seem to end up near Monterey.
Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

View attachment 1400702


Are you the one with the Monkey Division hat or the one in the blue shirt?

View attachment 1400705

I am neither and you well know that! If I was wearing a division hat it would say "82nd Airborne" of which I am very proud.

Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

The cross has probably been seen by 100's of people, ( 1 rock at a time of course ) but unless you see it from the air, ( or do a survey and draw it out as Nolan did ) you have no idea it could form a cross, or an arrow for that matter, depends how many lines you connect. By connecting the tip of the cross to each extending sideline... Anyone figured out where that arrow points? ( No I haven't )

The cross was first discovered in 1897, and Nolan made, what he considered an accurate, drawing of it. Notice that the stones are partially buried which is what should be expected for such an old object. The site I inspected near Annapolis Basin is in deeps woods and has about 6 inches of moss and dirt over top the rocks, some 500 years worth.

Interesting to note is that New Ross was first called Charing Cross after the point near London of the same name. Just down the street from that Charing Cross is where Temple Church is located. Most might remember Temple Church from "The Da Vinci Code" novel turned movie. The Church was the English headquarters for the Templars. I have found nobody that knows how or why New Ross was called Charing Cross, although everybody knows where the name New Ross came from!
Cheers, Loki

 

[Raparee]

Interesting to note is that New Ross was first called Charing Cross ...

Do you have a source for that claim? A map or government document identifying that area as Charing Cross?

 

[lokiblossom]

Do you have a source for that claim? A map or government document identifying that area as Charing Cross?

Caroline Leopold (Broome) in her "History of New Ross" says so. I also have a photo of a "World War 1" gun emplacement at New Ross on a large concrete pad that has the words "Charing Cross" in the concrete. There is now a memorial at the site of the old gun emplacement that calls it Charing Cross. I only posted it as an interesting coincidence.
Cheers, Loki

 

[b3y0nd3r]

AARC: My expectations of the thread were to bring factual accounts(newspaper articles, magazine interviews) of the beginning of the story ONLY. NOT to speculate on the existence of a treasure. The Title of the thread was supposed to denote a series of posts leading to the most logical and factual as possible: "Was something even there". Not to jump right to the end and speculate the answer based on feelings. That is why I used the term "personal bias".

Only one or two posters actually took the time to read my original post and/or honor my request. Ergo, no one really wanted to participate in the OP discussion.

 

[Raparee]

AARC: My expectations of the thread were to bring factual accounts(newspaper articles, magazine interviews) of the beginning of the story ONLY. NOT to speculate on the existence of a treasure. The Title of the thread was supposed to denote a series of posts leading to the most logical and factual as possible: "Was something even there". Not to jump right to the end and speculate the answer based on feelings. That is why I used the term "personal bias".

Only one or two posters actually took the time to read my original post and/or honor my request. Ergo, no one really wanted to participate in the OP discussion.

The problem is in establishing what is factual and what is not. Because a story was in a newspaper doesn't necessarily make it factual --- especially in that time period. I mean, look at all the "giant" stories published in various newspapers then. Fake news isn't a new problem.

 

[Bud Aurum]

The cross has probably been seen by 100's of people, ( 1 rock at a time of course ) but unless you see it from the air, ( or do a survey and draw it out as Nolan did ) you have no idea it could form a cross, or an arrow for that matter, depends how many lines you connect. By connecting the tip of the cross to each extending sideline... Anyone figured out where that arrow points? ( No I haven't )

I've read various possibilities, from a navigational beacon, used for summer/winter sunrise/sunset solstices, and pointing to Jerusalem.
Not heard of any connection to the money pit or New Ross as of yet.

I have read these boulders range in size up to 10 ton, but wonder how many others that size in the mix for Tom's theory of curious patterns in my backyard to be in the running. Anyone know?

Your Bud Aurum

 

[b3y0nd3r]

The problem is in establishing what is factual and what is not. Because a story was in a newspaper doesn't necessarily make it factual --- especially in that time period. I mean, look at all the "giant" stories published in various newspapers then. Fake news isn't a new problem.

I understand that, but at some point, we should accept what is logical. Is it logical for a boy of thirteen to make-up a treasure story? Is it logical that he saw something and acted on it? If the attitude that nothing is factual because it is in a periodical or document, then I can discount most of history.

 

[Bud Aurum]

I know it has been discussed before... I still believe the descendants claims need further investigation before saying there was never anything there...

Unfortunately, I don't think a videoed conversation with all involved, reinforcing the "Money Pit" story would sway the skeptics one bit. They would believe it's another plot for more investors or such.

 

[Raparee]

I understand that, but at some point, we should accept what is logical. Is it logical for a boy of thirteen to make-up a treasure story? Is it logical that he saw something and acted on it? If the attitude that nothing is factual because it is in a periodical or document, then I can discount most of history.

Right there is an example of the difficulty in determining fact from fiction with regards to Oak Island. McInnis was in his 30's when the Pit was alleged to have been found. As was Vaughan. If that aspect of the story is wrong, then how can we determine what is right?

 

[Tom_in_CA]

The cross was first discovered in 1897, ...

Is it possible that , if you searched google satellite for various back-country and/or desert type terrains, that you could likewise find crosses ? By connecting boulders with lines drawn onto the satellite pix, I'm sure that such crosses could be derived from boulders, in lots of places. Just sayin' ....

 

[Roadhse2]

There is no way to make that determination at all...unless a 'something' is found...so how can anyone answer this question? All the rest is just speculation because of a depression in the dirt and(perhaps) and old block and tackle found on a tree...which could just as easily been used to bleed out and skin out a deer.

If it was, then even the depression comes into question because that could be where other animals have dug because of the blood in the soil...So there are many reasons that there is no where to start on true or not, until 'something' is actually found, verified, still around and not 'lost,but we saw it' etc etc etc...

 

[Tom_in_CA]

... Is it logical for a boy of thirteen to make-up a treasure story? Is it logical that he saw something and acted on it?.....

b3yOnd3r, To give an example : I went to Mexico in the early 1990s, with an employee of mine who was a native of Mexico. He had learned I was into md'ing, and invited me to travel back with him to his native little towns, high up in the Sierra Madres of Mexico. Because he was convinced he knew where some treasures were. And as he spun the facts of the stories, they were quite compelling ! So off we went.

After several weeks of chasing various stories, it became apparent to me that the culture there is steeped in superstitions. They seem to think there's a treasure in every cave or ruin. And they've all got fabulous stories of what they heard from an eyewitness, blah blah. But when you track down that eye-witness to talk to, well, ... guess what, they didn't actually see the treasure either. They got it on good authority from another eye-witness. So you track down THAT person. And guess what ? Turns out they heard it from yet another person. And so on and so forth back to permanent regression. But at no point in the links does anyone receiving the story NOT consider it "first hand" and "iron-clad".

And to the point of your question quoted above:

I'll never forget accepting the invitation of one young boy (about 13) who ... upon learning an "americano with a metal detector" was in the village, came and invited me to please come check a cave that he believed a treasure was in. The boy and I hiked about a mile into the canyons, where we arrived at his cave. I could see that he'd been digging there quite a bit (evidence of past holes effort on his part). So I turned on my detector, and scanned. Nothing. Totally sterile. So I told him there's nothing here. But he would not be dissuaded. He figured that we'd simply need a detector that goes deeper. So I asked him "what makes you think there's anything even here?". To which he replied that he'd "seen sparkles on the ground".

That, and the Mexican stories of "smoke" (or vapors or fumes or whatever it is) coming from the ground were lines I heard multiple story originations from.

Anyhow, whenever I hear the Oak Island story of "the 13 yr. old boy" (who was no doubt quite sincere), I harken back to my experience from Mexico. And .... same thing: A sincere 13 yr. old boy, who saw something, interprets it in certain "treasure fever eyes", and presto, a legend is born.