Oak Island: Was something even there.

[b3y0nd3r]

There is no way to make that determination at all...unless a 'something' is found...so how can anyone answer this question? All the rest is just speculation because of a depression in the dirt and(perhaps) and old block and tackle found on a tree...which could just as easily been used to bleed out and skin out a deer.

If it was, then even the depression comes into question because that could be where other animals have dug because of the blood in the soil...So there are many reasons that there is no where to start on true or not, until 'something' is actually found, verified, still around and not 'lost,but we saw it' etc etc etc...

If this was my response, I would have verified examples of this occurrence and facts. What type of animals are native to the island. Was hunting there a documented activity.

 

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[b3y0nd3r]

b3yOnd3r, To give an example : I went to Mexico in the early 1990s, with an employee of mine who was a native of Mexico. He had learned I was into md'ing, and invited me to travel back with him to his native little towns, high up in the Sierra Madres of Mexico. Because he was convinced he knew where some treasures were. And as he spun the facts of the stories, they were quite compelling ! So off we went.

After several weeks of chasing various stories, it became apparent to me that the culture there is steeped in superstitions. They seem to think there's a treasure in every cave or ruin. And they've all got fabulous stories of what they heard from an eyewitness, blah blah. But when you track down that eye-witness to talk to, well, ... guess what, they didn't actually see the treasure either. They got it on good authority from another eye-witness. So you track down THAT person. And guess what ? Turns out they heard it from yet another person. And so on and so forth back to permanent regression. But at no point in the links does anyone receiving the story NOT consider it "first hand" and "iron-clad".

And to the point of your question quoted above:

I'll never forget accepting the invitation of one young boy (about 13) who ... upon learning an "americano with a metal detector" was in the village, came and invited me to please come check a cave that he believed a treasure was in. The boy and I hiked about a mile into the canyons, where we arrived at his cave. I could see that he'd been digging there quite a bit (evidence of past holes effort on his part). So I turned on my detector, and scanned. Nothing. Totally sterile. So I told him there's nothing here. But he would not be dissuaded. He figured that we'd simply need a detector that goes deeper. So I asked him "what makes you think there's anything even here?". To which he replied that he'd "seen sparkles on the ground".

That, and the Mexican stories of "smoke" (or vapors or fumes or whatever it is) coming from the ground were lines I heard multiple story originations from.

Anyhow, whenever I hear the Oak Island story of "the 13 yr. old boy" (who was no doubt quite sincere), I harken back to my experience from Mexico. And .... same thing: A sincere 13 yr. old boy, who saw something, interprets it in certain "treasure fever eyes", and presto, a legend is born.

You keep trying to prove that people let their imaginations run wild when it comes to treasure/fame. I UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT OF VIEW ALREADY! Now, what I am asking is to provide facts(you don't have to but it would be nice to debate from facts). Show me the studies that prove such behaviors. I may or may not agree with your idea of the lore.

 

[lokiblossom]

Is it possible that , if you searched google satellite for various back-country and/or desert type terrains, that you could likewise find crosses ? By connecting boulders with lines drawn onto the satellite pix, I'm sure that such crosses could be derived from boulders, in lots of places. Just sayin' ....

Sure you could, a person can also see frogs in the clouds. But this is not simply a cross, it is a fairly complicated design. Have you seen Nolan's drawing of it? Btw, its not the end of the world if you don't believe it is a cross, some others might.
Cheers, Loki

 

[lokiblossom]

AARC: My expectations of the thread were to bring factual accounts(newspaper articles, magazine interviews) of the beginning of the story ONLY. NOT to speculate on the existence of a treasure. The Title of the thread was supposed to denote a series of posts leading to the most logical and factual as possible: "Was something even there". Not to jump right to the end and speculate the answer based on feelings. That is why I used the term "personal bias".

Only one or two posters actually took the time to read my original post and/or honor my request. Ergo, no one really wanted to participate in the OP discussion.

Methinks your expectations were a little to high. These threads all evolve, sometimes into monsters, and nobody can keep their feelings in check.
Cheers, Loki

 

[b3y0nd3r]

Methinks your expectations were a little to high. These threads all evolve, sometimes into monsters, and nobody can keep their feelings in check.
Cheers, Loki

I am hoping you are wrong. Let's see.

 

[Roadhse2]

"Was hunting there a documented activity"

Nahhh...they all ran over to Mc D's to grab a bite.....

You miss the point entirely...and that is that there could be many, many, reasons for the start of this story, that have not one thing to do with treasure. So the onus is not on a collective 'us' to provide a fact it is there, but those that make the claim it is...word of mouth is not good enough, a passed down story with nothing to back it up is not good enough, an object with no clear lineage to the island or time period that can be proven is not good enough...and then any and all of that has to relate to treasure, not just everyday common goods that could be there for a variety of reasons.

So what do you have as a fact that is 100%, logical, and backed up with real proof? Not even the cross looked right to me when shown, so I researched it a bit online and said so on here that I could find nothing in the time period or before in question, that was made the same with the same methods it would take to make the one shown. 2 other members here with a collective experience in the 75 year range or so of dealing in and the knowledge of how jewelry, crucifixes, etc. were made in antiquity also said it was not from the proposed time, but more recent...Yet the woman says it has been verified as 600 (later she said 500, so pick which one you want)...but she offers no proof of that verification, just she says so.

Not good enough....and not logical to think so from the git go..

So the only facts we have is that there are no facts for the start of this story..so how can you ask anyone to provide any?

 

[ECS]

I understand that, but at some point, we should accept what is logical. Is it logical for a boy of thirteen to make-up a treasure story? Is it logical that he saw something and acted on it? If the attitude that nothing is factual because it is in a periodical or document, then I can discount most of history.

What about the timbers at various levels and the coconut fibers?

 

[Raparee]

What about the timbers at various levels ...

That 'fact' has change through the year. When it was first reported it was only claimed that there were a few platforms near the top, with "markings" at ten foot intervals. The story then evolved into there being platforms at ten foot intervals. No verification of any platforms at all have been found.

 

[ECS]

...and the coconut fibers?

 

[b3y0nd3r]

"Was hunting there a documented activity"

Nahhh...they all ran over to Mc D's to grab a bite.....

You miss the point entirely...and that is that there could be many, many, reasons for the start of this story, that have not one thing to do with treasure. So the onus is not on a collective 'us' to provide a fact it is there, but those that make the claim it is...word of mouth is not good enough, a passed down story with nothing to back it up is not good enough, an object with no clear lineage to the island or time period that can be proven is not good enough...and then any and all of that has to relate to treasure, not just everyday common goods that could be there for a variety of reasons.

So what do you have as a fact that is 100%, logical, and backed up with real proof? Not even the cross looked right to me when shown, so I researched it a bit online and said so on here that I could find nothing in the time period or before in question, that was made the same with the same methods it would take to make the one shown. 2 other members here with a collective experience in the 75 year range or so of dealing in and the knowledge of how jewelry, crucifixes, etc. were made in antiquity also said it was not from the proposed time, but more recent...Yet the woman says it has been verified as 600 (later she said 500, so pick which one you want)...but she offers no proof of that verification, just she says so.

Not good enough....and not logical to think so from the git go..

You are right. There could be many reasons. However, what is documented? The story.

There is documented proof that there is a story, that someone named Daniel Mcginnis claimed to find a depression in the ground and so on. It is the story we are supposed to be looking at here. The story is established. If it is true or not is what we are trying to debate. Saying the story is established or if it is true, are two different things.

In our history books, it is established that the Egyptians built the pyramids. If it is true can't really be proven.

Make sense?

 

[Charlie P. (NY)]

Coir floats and was used to stuff lifejackets and WWII convoy "solid" life rafts (see image). Canvas rotted away, fibers washed up.



600 ships went down in the Atlantic to submarine action off the US & Canada eastern coasts. Lots of fibers to be floating around.

Supposedly the fibers were tested by Woods Hole. But someone "produced" the fibers for them to test. They were not collected by Woods Hole staff, nor were they sealed to prevent contamination.

Carbon-14 dating doesn't work for sea-life because it is based on atmospheric respiration as well as what they feed on. Stuff in the water is exposed to different ions and isotopes.

Note the explanation about half-way down the linked entry below of why seaweed causes false readings for animals that have consumed them. It makes things appear older than they are by many hundreds of years - even living animal samples.

This effect is not uniform — the average effect is about 440 years, but there are local deviations of several hundred years for areas that are geographically close to each other. The effect also applies to marine organisms such as shells, and marine mammals such as whales and seals, which have radiocarbon ages that appear to be hundreds of years old.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiocarbon_dating

 

[Raparee]

...and the coconut fibers?

Coconut fibers were found and were dated to approx. 1100AD by the Woods Hole Institute. They also stated that there were a number of factors that could have influenced the dating (weather, salt water, etc...). It should also be noted that the sample of coconut fiber that was tested was handed to Woods Hole by the landowner, so there was no way for Woods Hole to verify provenance.

 

[Roadhse2]

"claimed to find a depression in the ground and so on"

And there you are...that is a 'claimed' fact....by him, then dug...by him....and only upheld and verified by him and his buds...maybe they were digging a well and they all jokingly mentioned.."This is just like digging for treasure" or "Hope we find some treasure"...and a legend was born. Who hasn't said the same when out digging for a footing or garden or whatever?

Then while at McD's for lunch someone asked them what they were up to today and said "Out digging for treasure" and there you go....

 

[b3y0nd3r]

That 'fact' has change through the year. When it was first reported it was only claimed that there were a few platforms near the top, with "markings" at ten foot intervals. The story then evolved into there being platforms at ten foot intervals. No verification of any platforms at all have been found.

Please site your evidence showing the discrepancy in the stories.

 

[montcalm]

The beginning of the story is truth,but he,s just supposing from three kids they figure they buried something...I'm not sure pirate were such motivated worker and engineer who made fancy channel who filled up with water..People digging for artesian well dig deeper until water is found and generally works.The story got bigger than the reality. They had use that three to hang something heavy just to fix it.. In the Province beside NB they found a jar with in a cavern with arrows and axes, after many years the story was that they found a treasure, a jar full of gold coins..

 

[b3y0nd3r]

"claimed to find a depression in the ground and so on"

And there you are...that is a 'claimed' fact....by him, then dug...by him....and only upheld and verified by him and his buds...maybe they were digging a well and they all jokingly mentioned.."This is just like digging for treasure" or "Hope we find some treasure"...and a legend was born. Who hasn't said the same when out digging for a footing or garden or whatever?

Then while at McD's for lunch someone asked them what they were up to today and said "Out digging for treasure" and there you go....

Never mind. I don't think you understand what I mean.

 

[Roadhse2]

The platform stuff is pretty common as known to be added onto by later searchers...and yes there are sites that claim this, that most of us have read, those that have done what research is available..

If you expect everyone to give a link to every scrap of what has been claimed...

Well...to be honest...I'm not playing...way to much time for what is generally accepted by the majority in this whole story...

So you guys have fun...Later!

 

[Raparee]

Please site your evidence showing the discrepancy in the stories.

Top Ten Money Pit Myths

I'm waiting for source documentation from Joltes.

 

[b3y0nd3r]

The platform stuff is pretty common as known to be added onto by later searchers...and yes there are sites that claim this, that most of us have read, those that have done what research is available..

If you expect everyone to give a link to every scrap of what has been claimed...

Well...to be honest...I'm not playing...way to much time for what is generally accepted by the majority in this whole story...

So you guys have fun...Later!

I understand and thanks for your input.

 

[Roadhse2]

"Never mind. I don't think you understand what I mean."

There's the problem....I DO understand what you mean....but that is also the problem...from day 1 it has all been hearsay with no documentation, just stories.....so no way to give you documentation that doesn't exist that you want