Obama Declares H1N1 Emergency

[Goodyguy]

What the misinformed call being paranoid, the intelligent call being astute.

I have seen no evidence of anyone posting their concerns about the dangers of serum injections or mistrust of the government as being symptoms of paranoia.

Quite the contrary, their posts are based upon their interpretation of medical evidence, and historic facts, therefore not due to any imagined or delusional thoughts of persecution.

Those who cannot seem to fathom that concept however, do exhibit symptoms of a social disorder, in my humble opinion.

GG~

 

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[The Beep Goes On]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Influenza ...

"As influenza is caused by a variety of species and strains of viruses, in any given year some strains can die out while others create epidemics, while yet another strain can cause a pandemic. Typically, in a year's normal two flu seasons (one per hemisphere), there are between three and five million cases of severe illness and up to 500,000 deaths worldwide, which by some definitions is a yearly influenza epidemic. Although the incidence of influenza can vary widely between years, approximately 36,000 deaths and more than 200,000 hospitalizations are directly associated with influenza every year in the United States. Roughly three times per century, a pandemic occurs, which infects a large proportion of the world's population and can kill tens of millions of people (see history section). Indeed, one study estimated that if a strain with similar virulence to the 1918 influenza emerged today, it could kill between 50 and 80 million people."

So, swine has killed 1,000 people which is causing some panic, but 36,000 people a year die from regular flu in the US. I think I would need to see much higher numbers of swine flu deaths to agree with the public and gov't response to swine flu. I understand vaccines are preventative and, as said above, we will never know how many will/would die if the vaccine didn't exist vs. how many will/would die with the vaccine.

A good link (if you believe them...j/k)... http://www.cdc.gov/flu/weekly/

To turnabout, if you want the shot, go for it

 

[Smee]

What the misinformed call being paranoid, the intelligent call being astute.

I have seen no evidence of anyone posting their concerns about the dangers of serum injections or mistrust of the government as being symptoms of paranoia.

Quite the contrary, their posts are based upon their interpretation of medical evidence, and historic facts, therefore not due to any imagined or delusional thoughts of persecution.

Those who cannot seem to fathom that concept however, do exhibit symptoms of a social disorder, in my humble opinion.

GG~

Thanks for thinking.

Any time one of us "questions" the sensibility of something, questions the logic, or questions the motives of someone --- in any way --- these same few simply see it as a call to attack.

I believe they have the right to "question" me too, but not at the price of taking away my right to "question" what I see going on. If no one asked questions, we'd all eat fish on Fridays since Catholics can't eat meat on Fridays.

Not condemning anyone, it is just that some of us MUST question the things we see around us. Some of us MUST be suspicious of what's going on, because we have been around the confidence men. We've known "snake oil salesmen".

Hell, these folks have come to a treasure hunting site! Don't they understand that they can't believe EVERYTHING said by the guy who wants to sell them a map to a guaranteed treasure he just doesn't have the time to dig up himself? You have to THINK about what you see happening. You have to think about WHY someone wants to GIVE you something for nothing, or WHY they make an offer that's "too good to be true."

Similarly, in life, you have to make decisions based on the facts AS YOU UNDERSTAND THEM. I have not said: "Don't get vaccinated!" I just hope folks make INFORMED decisions . . . not EMOTIONAL decisions. If the evidence tells you to get a shot or the nasal vaccine, then by all means do so. It won't affect me either way. Will I take the vaccine? No.

Spent the morning in the emergency room with my 12 year old daughter today. Why? Because her personal physician, who has been demanding that everyone take the vaccine like she did, is out with the flu.

My daughter is displaying some symptoms, but the doctor says it's just a virus that is going around which is unrelated to h1n1. Fever is remaining low, no respiratory distress, so he says just keep an eye on her and keep the fever down . . . just get her to the emergency room if ANYTHING changes.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

1000 deaths HERE in the US, in 6 months, not altogether.

If just one of those deaths was my child, it would be too many.

I don't think its an emergency just because someone who is president calls it an emergency, but, medically, if all your neighbors got it tomorrow, and your local hospital was full, and an emergency had not already been declared, you might not be able to get treatment (in a timely manner).


I guess I don't see a problem in being pro-active about health. But, then again, there are many people who do have a problem with it - I'm thinking - don't get the shot (either kind). The emergency call doesn't force anyone to get treatment or shots (unlike legislation that is pro-active about - oh, say, tobacco smoke, or the cancer "shot" for teens, or all the shots your kids have to get to go to school).

I just think its all relative.

I don't understand why people have an issue with it. Could someone explain just why it is an issue?

B

 

[The Beep Goes On]

1000 deaths HERE in the US, in 6 months, not altogether.

If just one of those deaths was my child, it would be too many.

I don't understand why people have an issue with it. Could someone explain just why it is an issue?

B

If you extrapolated the 1,000 in six months you would have 2,000 deaths annually....long way from 36,000. Your well-founded and shared sentiment concerning "if it were my child" I do understand. I just don't think it's worth the risk, at least not yet, if ever.

As far as the issues some have with it, there are social, political and corporate concerns that some have already mentioned.

Socially, the media, as described above, has made the most of it. A lot of us have a strong distrust of the MSM even if they weren't in the govt's pocket, but mostly because of this. It's hard to be objective with an agenda.

Politically, declaring an emergency is frought with concern. Yes, I know it was declared to speed up creation and distribution of the vaccine, but did you know it also gives O the "legal power to: seize property; organize and control the means of production; seize commodities; assign military forces abroad; institute martial law; seize and control all transportation and communication; regulate the operation of private enterprise; restrict travel; and, in a plethora of particular ways, control the lives of all American citizens." I think there might have been alternatives to declaring an emergency.

As far as pharma goes, I already mentioned how their quest for profits can indiscriminately affect people adversely.

 

[The Beep Goes On]

It might work that way in a petri dish, but not in the real world, especially with people taking the vaccine. There have been spikes, but no exponential increase.

 

[Smee]

Mrs. Oroblanco. Don't know why the thread got turned this way, but here is the original post:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/10/24/h1n1.obama/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

How can you tell if you got it?

This site claims to be able to help you determine if you have it, and whether to call 911 or just head to the hospital.

https://h1n1.cloudapp.net/fluquiz.aspx

I later did state that the media, in my opinion has blown the whole matter out of proportion. I also stated my concern that this "emergency declaration" might allow them to force the vaccination on my child.

 

[mrs.oroblanco]

Smee,

If your concern is someone being forced to have it - then I would have to agree - I don't even like that my children and grandchildren had to be immunized before they would let them in a school building. (most states can prosecute on not having your kids immunized unless it is under religious reasons), and, of course, that's why I brought that up before.

Pigiron,

Of course, you are correct - there are 5,000 deaths world-wide (confirmed, not counting any that might not be confirmed), and the world is a small place what with airplanes, etc., these days, and there are at least 12 countries that are just experiencing their first cases.

But, declaring a health emergency does not force you to get, or have your kids get, the vaccine. Though, I am surprised, because the resistance to this vaccine is the exact opposite of what many said a year or so ago about the vaccination that could possibly prevent cancer if taken by young girls. I suspect it is the declaration itself that has people worried. So far, as citizens, we still have the right to refuse any medical treatment - for us or our children, and the declaration does not change that - it only deals with available resources. More resources are available if there is a declaration made, then if there is not.

I cannot find the post, so forgive me - but most pharma companies want to treat, and not heal. If they heal, they are out of business. No one is going to give up the kind of cash that pharmaceutical companies make - nobody. They say "we are looking for a cure, but in the meantime", just like HIV/AIDS - look at Magic Johnson - see what modern drugs can do, for the right price - you can live for years as long as someone is paying the 4 grand a month that HIV/aids treatment costs.

I do see how the discussion took this turn - first, the way the topic was worded, second is the first reference posted, which doesn't tell you how to tell if you have it. So, once you read it, it brings in other possible scenerios and possible government intervention.

I know I'm not going to get a H1N1 shot - either is hubby - the regular flu shot - Thursday.

B

 

[jeff of pa]

No one's deliberately being insulting except for Smee.

Well one is Too Many.

Please Stay OUT of this Thread &
any Topic where you feel it is Necessary to
Insult Anyone.

JEFF

 

[The Beep Goes On]

At the risk of repeating info, "there are between three and five million cases of severe illness and up to 500,000 deaths worldwide, which by some definitions is a yearly influenza epidemic."

5000 vs. 500,000 ... why don't they declare an emergency every year?

 

[The Beep Goes On]

Typical... http://thebulletin.us/articles/2009/10/25/top_stories/doc4ae4b76d07e16766677720.txt

 

[Smee]

Yep, another "vaccination" that my daughter's doctor demanded she have. We read the side effects . . . infertility, etc. and talked about it . . . then discussed it with our daughter who was frightened because the doctor made it sound to her that failure to take the vaccination was tantamount to A GUARANTEE that she WOULD contract the disease. Then we explained that (according to THEIR literature) they can't guarantee that even WITH the vaccination she would not get the disease.

If an 11 year old girl can sit down and understand the "risks versus rewards" of such a treatment, why can't a doctor? Greed. Power. Money.

On a side note, I noticed that NOW the Obamas are claiming that their girls DID get the vaccine, but that THEY are going to wait until all the children and pregnant mothers have been vaccinated BEFORE they submit to it. SOUNDS noble, but like everything else we see in the media, the validity of the statements is questionable --- In My Opinion.

 

[ClonedSIM]

What the misinformed call being paranoid, the intelligent call being astute.

I have seen no evidence of anyone posting their concerns about the dangers of serum injections or mistrust of the government as being symptoms of paranoia.

Quite the contrary, their posts are based upon their interpretation of medical evidence, and historic facts, therefore not due to any imagined or delusional thoughts of persecution.

Those who cannot seem to fathom that concept however, do exhibit symptoms of a social disorder, in my humble opinion.

GG~

So anyone who's not paranoid is un-intelligent and posesses a social disorder, in your opinion? Nice....

The intrepretation of medical evidence by a non-member of the medical community can be seriously flawed, I don't think anyone should disagree with that. It's important to rely on the information given to us from doctors and others associated with the medical field. These folks are trained to see what is actually there, what is actually happening, without getting caught up in the fervor surrounding something like this. Of course, there will always be a small minority that disagrees with the remainder. An informal survey recently showed that 91% of doctors are recommending the H1N1 vaccine to their patients. So this means that 9% are recommending not to get the shot.

According to GG, only 9% of doctors are intelligent......

As far as historical facts go, those are hardly a benchmark for determining what may or may not happen with this particular influenza. Medical technology, understanding of health-care by the general public, research tools, vaccine manufacturing methods; all of these have advanced since 1976. To say that the exact same thing that happened 30 years ago will happen now displays a rather antiquated view of society, in my opinion......

 

[homefires]

My son received the Live Virus Nasal spray yesterday at school.

I have my own experiment going on here now.

 

[RGINN]

I don't care about your damn government and I don't care about your damn flu. However, I support and live within the rules of your government and don't want to see nobody get the flu, so all y'all get the shots and it lessens my chance of gettin it. I never get sick any way. I have noticed that all this talk about a flu epidemic, pandemic, or whatever demic level it's declared to be distracts attention from foreclosures, the ecomony, soldiers gettin killed, crime, whatever else we can't solve just yet. So maybe it's a good deal. You think?

 

[Smee]

I have noticed that all this talk about a flu epidemic, pandemic, or whatever demic level it's declared to be distracts attention from foreclosures, the ecomony, soldiers gettin killed, crime, whatever else we can't solve just yet. So maybe it's a good deal. You think?

Suspect a bit of "slight-of hand"? Wouldn't surprise me if it is . . . just another distraction. Of course, it could just be a vehicle to force "health care reform" on the country.

 

[ClonedSIM]

I have noticed that all this talk about a flu epidemic, pandemic, or whatever demic level it's declared to be distracts attention from foreclosures, the ecomony, soldiers gettin killed, crime, whatever else we can't solve just yet. So maybe it's a good deal. You think?

Suspect a bit of "slight-of hand"? Wouldn't surprise me if it is . . . just another distraction. Of course, it could just be a vehicle to force "health care reform" on the country.

And this is the paranoid speech I referenced earlier. A flu runs through the country, and for every person thinking the government created it to thin the population, there's another who says it was created? encouraged? to distract from other problems the country is experiencing.

Two excellent medical identifications of paranoia:
The individual thinks that harm is occurring, or is going to occur,
The individual thinks that the persecutor has the intention to cause harm.

In this case, the "harm" can either be the flu itself, or the act of using it as a distraction of some other "harm." The "persecutor" is most likely the government but, hey! You guys tell me!

 

[The Beep Goes On]

Yeah, that is the extreme version (conspriracy theory), that the NWO created the flu to thin the global population. I haven't heard anyone say that here, though.

 

[ClonedSIM]

Yeah, that is the extreme version (conspriracy theory), that the NWO created the flu to thin the global population. I haven't heard anyone say that here, though.

Sorry, the person making that particular claim actually wrote that post in another thread, surprisingly similar to this one. I thought it was written above, but the point still stands, IMHO.

 

[Smee]

Yeah, that is the extreme version (conspriracy theory), that the NWO created the flu to thin the global population. I haven't heard anyone say that here, though.

Sorry, the person making that particular claim actually wrote that post in another thread, surprisingly similar to this one. I thought it was written above, but the point still stands, IMHO.

Wrote it the same way in the other post. But then again, maybe your computer told you I said something else.

Really, can't you distinguish between a person saying "it wouldn't surprise me" and their saying "I believe such and such"?

Shoot, I'm originally from New Orleans, grew up around the thugs and crooks in the french quarter and spent a bunch of time in the 9th ward around the pimps, pushers and murderers. My grandfather who helped raise me was a bounty hunter, my daddy was a preacher. Nothing I've seen or heard in the past 50 years has surprised me - especially politics.