OLD ARTILLARY SHELLS - WW1 ERA?

[Limitool]

Back in the mid-1950's my Grandfather gave my mother and father an old home in Constantine MI. My late father said after they moved into the home he was going through the attic and found these 2 old artillary shells. And they do look OLD. My father told me years later when I asked about them that an old army General or Captain (?) from WW1 lived there and he must have brought them home. Sooooooo…. with that said can anyone here tell me what era these two shells might have come from? If that story is true then probably WW1 but I've been wondering lately if this is correct and what type shells they are. They've just been sitting on top of my gun cabinet for years. There's no room for them on the inside. Oh…. and yes their disarmed.

About the shells: Their larger than my 300 mag. shells (kidding). They weight about 7-8 pounds. Their 11" long and 3" in diameter. Around the nose cone both say MODEL 1907 M. The numbers 1 thru 21 are stamped evenly around the nose. One shell around the lower brass nose cone has stamped: B H MODEL 1907 M 73 9 51 16 LOT 26 17. The other has SCDVILL MODEL 1907 M LOT 78 6 A 109 17. The nose cones appear to be able to be "dialed in" for range or timed explosion. And both appear to have copper or brass base mounted rifling. The darker one has NOT been painted but why it's darker…. I do not know.

I'm hoping there might be someone here who might know something about old artillery or know where to look. Are they worth anything besides scrap metal? I'd just like to learn more about them and thanks for any help, advise or knowledge….. Brad

 

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[watercolor]

Very cool shells Brad!

From the pictures of your shell, I would say WWI. The reason I say this is a WWI vet gave me a similar shell when I was a kid.
After he gave it to me, he said he's had it since the "Great War". He also mentioned at one time he had some small round bearings
that were once inside of it but he couldn't find them. This leads me to think that these were possibly fragmentation shells.

Out of curiosity, are there any markings on the bottom?

The pic below is the one he gave me when I was a kid.

 

[Red James Cash]

Time fuze.The closest thing to a range fuse is a Proximity fuze.Thats the range from the shell to the target,not the shell from the gun,Proximity fuzes appeared during WW2.Then theres also a contact fuse.

 

[Limitool]

Very cool shells Brad!

From the pictures of your shell, I would say WWI. The reason I say this is a WWI vet gave me a similar shell when I was a kid.
After he gave it to me, he said he's had it since the "Great War". He also mentioned at one time he had some small round bearings
that were once inside of it but he couldn't find them. This leads me to think that these were possibly fragmentation shells.

Out of curiosity, are there any markings on the bottom?

The pic below is the one he gave me when I was a kid.

View attachment 910305

Cool.... Stay tuned and I'll get back about the bottom markings (if any). I looked but didn't see anything at first glance. Gotta get mag. lite out and look better. So I guess you don't have the nose cone for yours...? SO what do you know about yours What type of shell are these? Well I guess we'll know together if you don't. Thanks for sharing yours. I gotta go look now better... may need help (BUT NOTHING WRONG WITH MY EYESIGHT!)... I'm in denial..... later.... Brad

 

[Limitool]

Watercolor..... One shell is darker and very pitted compared to the other. So I took the "better" shell and checked the bottom... nothing but a lot of grime. So, I've soaked in dawn soap and water and taken out a scrubbed the bottom with old toothbrush about 15-20 times and returned to soaking. I still don't see anything but it appears your marking are VERY SMALL. Is this right? Anyway I'm still cleaning and hope to find some type of markings soon. I'm thinking about using something a little me harsh but maybe I shouldn't....?

 

[Papa Bear]

Its a 75 mm Shell with a 1907 M fuse. Pre WW1 and WW1.

Military History: WWI Artillery Shell, artillery ammunition, artillery shell

Item:11717360 WWI Scovill Model 1907M Shell & Fuse dated 1917 For Sale at GunAuction.com

Nice door stop for sure

 

[Limitool]

Its a 75 mm Shell with a 1907 M fuse. Pre WW1 and WW1.

Military History: WWI Artillery Shell, artillery ammunition, artillery shell

Item:11717360 WWI Scovill Model 1907M Shell & Fuse dated 1917 For Sale at GunAuction.com

Nice door stop for sure

Papa Bear.... Thank you very much for the info. I looked over both links and read them entirely. When you stated "Pre WW1 and WW1." did you mean WW2 on the 2nd WW-? Or am I not understanding? So I now know these are WW1 arterially shells as told to me by my father. So with this info.... can we say what year these shells were made? I wonder why one is so dark colored and the other not... maybe one was fired. The dark colored one has a dent on the nose cone maybe from being fired and landing....? The other one's nose cone is "perfect". But thank you very much for the information... Brad

 

[Papa Bear]

Well the 1907 means the year first designed, plus with the story that you were told they either came from the pre-WW1 years or from WW1 itself.

I went to France as a kid (Battle of the Somme) in the 1980's and remember seeing duds stacked up at road intersections out in the countryside. If, 70 years later, the famers were still ploughing up duds then God knows what it was like during the war....

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Limitool, the ID posted by Papa Bear is correct... both of them are World War One era US 75mm-caliber artillery shells, with the Model-1907 "21-seconds" timefuze in their noses, which the gunner would "set" for the specific time-of-flight from the cannon to the intended target. That type of timefuze was used primarily in what were known as "Shrapnel" shells... meaning, in addition to an explosive powder-charge they contained many dozens of lead antipersonnel balls. Some (but not all) 20th-Century artillery fuzes were marked with the date of manufacture. If yours are dated, the marking would be on the opposite side from the "Scovill Model 1907-M" marking. The year-date would be two digits at the end of the marking.

Both of them have been fired, because the copperbrass band sabot band located a bit above the projectile's base shows rifling groove marks made by the cannon during firing. If they were unfired, there's be no rifling marks on the band-sabot.

Unfortunately, there's no way to know whether they are souvenirs carried back to the US from a World War One battlefield, or came from a practice-range here in the US. I can tell you with certainty that a great many of those shells were fired in artillery training practice here in the US. A lot of those same fuzes have been dug along the James River around Richmond VA, where I live.

 

[Limitool]

Limitool, the ID posted by Papa Bear is correct... both of them are World War One era US 75mm-caliber artillery shells, with the Model-1907 "21-seconds" timefuze in their noses, which the gunner would "set" for the specific time-of-flight from the cannon to the intended target. That type of timefuze was used primarily in what were known as "Shrapnel" shells... meaning, in addition to an explosive powder-charge they contained many dozens of lead antipersonnel balls. Some (but not all) 20th-Century artillery fuzes were marked with the date of manufacture. If yours are dated, the marking would be on the opposite side from the "Scovill Model 1907-M" marking. The year-date would be two digits at the end of the marking.

Both of them have been fired, because the copperbrass band sabot band located a bit above the projectile's base shows rifling groove marks made by the cannon during firing. If they were unfired, there's be no rifling marks on the band-sabot.

Unfortunately, there's no way to know whether they are souvenirs carried back to the US from a World War One battlefield, or came from a practice-range here in the US. I can tell you with certainty that a great many of those shells were fired in artillery training practice here in the US. A lot of those same fuzes have been dug along the James River around Richmond VA, where I live.

Thanks Cannon and Bear guy... They've been sitting around in my sight for 58 years and I always wondered "what" they were exactly. So outside of scrap metal I assume there not worth much if anything? They are neat book ends, paper weights and conversation pieces. I wonder what would happen if they were sitting in the front seat and you got pulled over... I probably don't want to know!!!!

 

[TheCannonballGuy]

Answering Limitool's latest questions:
Your shells have a timefuze, not an impact-detonation fuze. But as I indicated in my reply to Genlee about his civil war Hotchkiss shell, unfortunately most policemen are unable to tell the diffeence between a harmless shell and a dangerous one... so they tend to call the Bomb Squad whenever they encounter ANY type of artillery projectile.

You said your World War One shells have been deactivated... so, they do have value to collectors of WW1 artillery projectiles. There aren't many guys who collect that kind, so they don't have "a lot" of dollar-value, probably in the $50 to $75 range, but they're definitely worth more than their scrapmetal value.

Here's a 1915 US Ordnance Department diagram showing the internal structure and composition of your shells. They are the version titled "Common Shrapnel" in the diagram.

 

[CASPER-2]

I have a beach where I find pieces of the heads of these and hunks of the fuses
thx to Cannonballguy for posting insides - I find tons of lead balls in this area in the water - thought they were musketballs
knew what the heads and fuses were from - did not know that they were loaded with lead balls too
I have 5 other beaches where I find actual musketballs at - thought I had another spot but ones from this spot are different

 

[CASPER-2]

HERE IS JUST ONE COLLECTION OF SOME OF THE FRAGS FROM THOSE SHELLS



HERES SOME OF THE BALLS FOUND AROUND THE SAME AREA - SALTWATER FINDS

 

[Limitool]

Thanks again Cannon... and if the balls that Casper-2 is holding are the ones that went into the shells those look like some WICKED lead or steel to be flying around. But thanks to all for helping me understand what I have sitting here... you guys are super!!!!.... Brad

 

[Limitool]

Cannon.... How do you open the shells up...? I'm assuming just unscrew the nose cone? When I shake the darker one I can hear something on the inside moving around.

 

[thearock]

I was doing some mindless research and came across this thread, I know it has been several years now but if any one of you is still interested in learning about WWI 75mm shrapnel rounds I may be able to shed more light on the subject.

 

[Nfall3]

I was doing some mindless research and came across this thread, I know it has been several years now but if any one of you is still interested in learning about WWI 75mm shrapnel rounds I may be able to shed more light on the subject.

I have one and would like more info on how to determine it is inert! been in family since 1918..

 

[Limitool]

I was doing some mindless research and came across this thread, I know it has been several years now but if any one of you is still interested in learning about WWI 75mm shrapnel rounds I may be able to shed more light on the subject.

Hey thearock..... I just found your post from July this year. Yea... let us know!!!!! PLEASE and thank you.