Old weird token with horse on it, Farley Coin, Any ideas.....

[ugotit22]

Hey guys
i went to this 1800's farm house today and come up with this in the front yard. It is copper about the size of a half dollar. It has what looks like a horses head with some strange symbols and one side. The other side looks like the bust of a women wearing a wreath around her head.
I have no idea what it could be.
any information would be great.
Thanks
Keith

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Looking back, Mrs. O is welcome to her opinion but I think she is mistaken.

I think the "differences" on the dangling root coins are too close to call. If they are different dies, I dont see it. Like you say its hard to tell with only pictures. What we do know is that they cast coins, not hammered, and are only found in the USA.

If I get a chance, SS, Ill take a another look and post them all side by side. I can see the confusion from a quote from Professor Mc "Eleven specimens are known, from five different die varieties". He may be referring to all the Farley coins. I am referring to only the dangling root coins as being the same die IMO.

 

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[Bigcypresshunter]

Is this the same story? http://www.teosofia.com/Docs/vol-3-10-supplement.pdf

 

[Erik in NJ]

When you say not hammered - do you mean not struck with a die? So they are die-cast? If die-cast, how would the planchettes differ? I would have thought there would be no "planchette" per se in this case. I know little to nothing of how ancient coins were made except for Spanish cobs. Were the original silver coins that these were based on also die-cast??

 

[ppratt]

I think its a new state quarter

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

When you say not hammered - do you mean not struck with a die? So they are die-cast? If die-cast, how would the planchettes differ? I would have thought there would be no "planchette" per se in this case. I know little to nothing of how ancient coins were made except for Spanish cobs. Were the original silver coins that these were based on also die-cast??

I dont know. SWR says the flans are different. Maybe he could explain it better.

I guess what I mean is that the pattern is identical on all the dangling root coins. When I worked for a sign company (long time ago)we made brass signs. We first made a pattern of wood. If this was to be reproduced many times we made the pattern in aluminum. This pattern was used to make a mold. Sorry planchette is the wrong word. I dont know everything about it but, in my eyes, the pattern is the same. Some of the molds are possibly different or clipped later.

These coins are not hammered. They are not struck with a hammer and die. They are cast. The denticals are identical.. The fading denticals were cast to fake the appearance of an ancient hammered coin. Look at the coin on the right and you will see the fading denticals (perimeter dots).

 

[Silver Searcher]

When you say not hammered - do you mean not struck with a die? So they are die-cast? If die-cast, how would the planchettes differ? I would have thought there would be no "planchette" per se in this case. I know little to nothing of how ancient coins were made except for Spanish cobs. Were the original silver coins that these were based on also die-cast??

I dont know. SWR says the flans are different. Maybe he could explain it better.

I guess what I mean is that the pattern is identical on all the dangling root coins. When I worked for a sign company we made brass signs. We first made a pattern of wood. If this was to be reproduced many times we made the pattern in aluminum. This pattern was used to make a mold. Sorry maybe planchette is the wrong word. The pattern is the same. Some of the molds are possibly different or clipped later.

These coins are not hammered. They are not struck with a hamer and die. They are cast. The denticals are identical.. The fading denticals were cast to fake the appearance of an ancient hammered coin.

Designs of ancient Greek coins were imprinted using a hand die, a block of iron carved with a design. When the surface of blank coin disc was heated, the die was hammered onto the coin to create a design.

SS

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Heres a great link on cast forgeries. http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/fakes/cast.htm

http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/fakes/cast.htm

hammered forgeries- http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/fakes/struck.htm http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/fakes/struck.htm

 

[Silver Searcher]

Heres a great link on cast forgeries. http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/fakes/cast.htm

I have that site on my favourites, but I don't think these copies were made from this process, rather I think they are a stamped design

SS

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

Heres a great link on cast forgeries. http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/fakes/cast.htm

I have that site on my favourites, but I don't think these copies were made from this process, rather I think they are a stamped design

SS

This was researched in 2009 so its not fresh in my mind. Cast or machine stamped would indicate modern.

 

[Silver Searcher]

Heres a great link on cast forgeries. http://www.calgarycoin.com/reference/fakes/cast.htm

I have that site on my favourites, but I don't think these copies were made from this process, rather I think they are a stamped design

SS

This was researched in 2009 so its not fresh in my mind. Cast or machine stamped would indicate modern.

Yes it would

SS

 

[Bigcypresshunter]

I had to go back and search the original 5- page thread because I dont remember but here is a good side view of History Hunters WISCONSIN FARLEY COIN, of the same dangling roots variety, that looks like its cast but I guess it could be machine stamped. There is no way this coin is hammered by hand.

 

[Erik in NJ]

So were the earliest coins then ever cast - like Celtic staters .... We don't find them here so I know little about cast, hammered, milled, etc. I'm assuming today's coins are considered stamped (machine) with a die or are they struck I don't have the terminology straight to discuss this properly. I would have to assume the very earliest coins were cast (molten metal poured into a mold)....no?

 

[Silver Searcher]

So were the earliest coins then ever cast - like Celtic staters .... We don't find them here so I know little about cast, hammered, milled, etc. I'm assuming today's coins are considered stamped (machine) with a die or are they struck I don't have the terminology straight to discuss this properly. I would have to assume the very earliest coins were cast (molten metal poured into a mold)....no?

Celtic staters were made in the same way, struck with a die, giving the coin a slight dish

SS

 

[CRUSADER]

So were the earliest coins then ever cast - like Celtic staters .... We don't find them here so I know little about cast, hammered, milled, etc. I'm assuming today's coins are considered stamped (machine) with a die or are they struck I don't have the terminology straight to discuss this properly. I would have to assume the very earliest coins were cast (molten metal poured into a mold)....no?

http://www.archaeology.co.uk/articles/making-a-mint-the-archaeology-of-a-late-iron-age-industry.htm
Heres some info. They were blank cast & then hanmmered.

 

[Silver Searcher]

I have no idea why some one keeps posting what I have already said

SS

 

[CRUSADER]

I have no idea why some one keeps posting what I have already said

SS

Didn't read you saying that he was partly correct, they are cast moulded to begin with & then hammered. I just went the extra mile & explain it further giving a link (which you normally harp on about in the 'what is it' forum)

 

[Silver Searcher]

I have no idea why some one keeps posting what I have already said

SS

Didn't read you saying that he was partly correct, they are cast moulded to begin with & then hammered. I just went the extra mile & explain it further giving a link (which you normally harp on about in the 'what is it' forum)

If you had taken the time, and read all the replys, instead of jumping in with your big mouth, you will see that I said they were made the same way as ancient greek coins, on the previous page.

 

[CRUSADER]

I have no idea why some one keeps posting what I have already said

SS

Didn't read you saying that he was partly correct, they are cast moulded to begin with & then hammered. I just went the extra mile & explain it further giving a link (which you normally harp on about in the 'what is it' forum)

If you had taken the time, and read all the replys, instead of jumping in with your big mouth, you will see that I said they were made the same way as ancient greek coins, on the previous page.

I don't expect it will be long until your banned for abusive behaviour, its not the first time you have done this. Not everything is about you, the person posting clearly wanted an explaination & may or may not have read everything.

 

[Silver Searcher]

I have no idea why some one keeps posting what I have already said

SS

Didn't read you saying that he was partly correct, they are cast moulded to begin with & then hammered. I just went the extra mile & explain it further giving a link (which you normally harp on about in the 'what is it' forum)

If you had taken the time, and read all the replys, instead of jumping in with your big mouth, you will see that I said they were made the same way as ancient greek coins, on the previous page.

I don't expect it will be long until your banned for abusive behaviour, its not the first time you have done this. Not everything is about you, the person posting clearly wanted an explaination & may or may not have read everything.

Put your complaint forward, should you wish. There was nothing abusive said to you. Your the one that's been following me from thread to thread.

 

[CRUSADER]

I have no idea why some one keeps posting what I have already said

SS

Didn't read you saying that he was partly correct, they are cast moulded to begin with & then hammered. I just went the extra mile & explain it further giving a link (which you normally harp on about in the 'what is it' forum)

If you had taken the time, and read all the replys, instead of jumping in with your big mouth, you will see that I said they were made the same way as ancient greek coins, on the previous page.

I don't expect it will be long until your banned for abusive behaviour, its not the first time you have done this. Not everything is about you, the person posting clearly wanted an explaination & may or may not have read everything.

Put your complaint forward, should you wish. There was nothing abusive said to you. Your the one that's been following me from thread to thread.