Perdido bay Shipwreck

[ivan salis]

of the 13 vessels that set sail on june 11th 1559 from verz cruz,mexico under the command of "Don" Tristan de Luna Y Arellano (governor of florida) seven (7) ships were lost when they were struck by a tempest--(consisting of the following--five "regular" ships (cargo naos) one GALLEON and one bark (smaller vessel)---worthy of note---it was stated that it swept one CARAVEL (type of ship design) into a grove of trees more than a HARQUEBUS (OLD TYPE OF RIFLE) shot inshore and that it lasted 24 hours------that I know of to date only one ship had been found-- leaving six ships unaccounted for--note the word "GALLEON" WAS USED ONLY FOR A TREASURE SHIP in spanish reports ----the "report" states they anchored at "the bay of santa maria " (which I believe to be today called PENSACOLA BAY) on august 14th,1559 and while there they were at anchor there they were struck by a tempest (violent storm) on september 19th 1559-----the storm reportly hit them from the north --- the ships were lost then--- spanish archive reports and the reports of Capt Don Tristan de Luna y Arellano-- lists "seven" ships as lost --the one "found" wreck is the "emmaual point wreck" ---highly worth noting is the fact that these ships sailed in a groupalmost all the time ( fairly close together) to support and aid each other in case of accident or attack---so where theres one --theres most likely more close by---P.S.---now the "good" part these ships (naos) would have been loaded with silver coming from the mexican mines ---they all most likely carried at least some silver until they hit havana then it was gathered up and was placed "in bulk" upon the two or three "main treasure ships" or galleons of the ""combined fleet" for safety (they were much heavier armed than the "normal" nao's---same type of ship but much better armed) for its home bound leg from havana---so yes indeed these ships were "out bound" orheaded home to spain thus loaded with silver when wrecked--- the GALLEON from this group could be the find of a life time----- that is if "the bay of santa maria" is indeed "pensacola bay" if so then ----there be treasure there fer sure matey---aaaarrrrgggghhh----Ivan

 

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[G.I.B.]

The Presidio Santa Maria de Galve, founded in 1696 by the Spanish colonists (by franciscan monks), was in the area of Fort Barrancas at Naval Air Station Pensacola in northwest Florida.

Could Santa Maria Bay be this place we now call Pensacola, named after the above?

If so a French map, pre 1696 should answer that question.

The presidio was captured peacefully on May 14, 1719, by Governor Bienville of French Louisiana, with a fleet of ships and a large ground force of Indian warriors. A hurricane devastated the area in 1722, and the evacuating French occupation forces burned the settlement before leaving.

Avast me pirate mates, thar be a treasure needing tended to...

 

[ivan salis]

what your looking for is a spanish map pre 1696 not french---"santa maria"---is a "spanish type name"--- so very look carefully ---and enjoy the find---(ps the age of the wreck at "emmanual point wreck" fits the mid 1500's time frame ---wink-wink)----Ivan

 

[pcolaboy]

Yes, the Bahia Santa Maria de Galve is the entire Pensacola Bay system as named by Carlos Siguenza in 1693.

There were actually 4 geographically different settlements of Pensacola. Refer to the map at the bottom for reference.

• The first was by DeLuna in 1559 as we all know. However, the exact location of this first settlement is debated. Most scholars believe it was at the end of Santa Rosa Island and others believe near where Presidio Santa Maria de Galve was created 139 years later in 1698.
  
• When the first Pensacola settlement was finally abandoned in 1561, it was essentially forgotten for 125 years. In 1686 Juan Enrquez Baroto and Antonio Romero rediscovered Pensacola Bay during a scouting mission where the name Panzacola was coined for the first time. In 1693, Dr. Carlos Siguenza and Admiral Andrés de Pez explored the waters of Pensacola Bay and surrounding areas drawing detailed maps and selected a future settlement site. In 1698, at the urging of an ill Siguenza, Andrés de Arriola soon-to-be governor, established Ft. San Carlos de Austria (made of wood and earth) and the adjacent Presidio Santa Maria de Galve approximately 1/4 mile east-northeast of present-day Ft. Barrancas onboard Pensacola Naval Air Station. If you go to Google Earth and do a search for these coordiates you will see a reconstructed rendition of the northwest bastion of the old fort: 30°20'57.76"N, 87°17'35.23"W. Between 1719 and 1722, Pensacola changed hands several times between the French and the Spanish.
  
  
• Finally in 1722, the French burned Ft. San Carlos de Austria and the Presidio prior to reacquisition by the Spanish. Later that year a new settlement called Presidio Isla de Santa Rosa, was constructed on Santa Rosa Island approximately 1.5 miles to the east-southeast of where Fort Pickens is today. In 1750, a small fortified village was created in the future downtown Pensacola called Ft. San Miguel, to protect friendly indians. On Nov. 13, 1752, a severe hurricane destroyed most of the settlement at Presidio Isla de Santa Rosa causing many to relocate themselves to the mainland and fend for themselves. The entire colony was nearly abandoned when the King Ferdinand VII posted an edict calling for the permanent relocation of Pensacola to the mainland adjacent to Ft. San Miguel.
  
  
• In 1757, the official proclamation and dedication for the colony of Panzacola by King Ferdinand VII in its present-day location
  

There are alot of authors out there that have taken shortcuts when describing how Pensacola got its name. Yes it was named after the Indians they encountered from words meaning "Long-Haired People". However, the actual words in the Choctaw (neighboring tribe to the east) language were Pansafalaya Okla which literally translates to "Long-Haired People". These original natives avoided the arriving Spanish colonists thanks to the oppressive experiences they had with Narvaez and de Vaca decades earlier (around 1528). Also, the original name of the area was spelled Panzacola by the Spanish. It wasnt until the British occupation of 1763-1781 that the name was changed to Pensacola.

I'm not obsessed with my hometown's history am I ?!?!

Pcola

 

[ivan salis]

AH pensacola bay is indeed " the bay of santa maria" just as I thought for sometime--the proof is lying right there before you-- all that is needed now is to simply reach out and grasp it---do not let your chance at the brass "ring" slide by---(or should I say golden "ring")---the records do not lie---there is a 1559 spanish treasue GALLEON down in pensacola bay-- yes it can be "yours"-----its just laying there waiting for the "right" person with the brains,the balls and the heart to get it--- whatca wasting time talking to me for?--if I wasn't half dead already and my lungs weren't so shot I'd be on this one like a pitbull on a 3 legged cat----there be treasure that needs tending to quickly---Ivan

 

[pcolaboy]

I'm not at all aware of a treasure ship going down in Pensacola from 1559. I would have to suspect that if there were one it must have been a visiting ship since DeLuna's colony was recorded as being very poor and receiving little assistance from the Viceroy of Mexico. The DeLuna ship excavated off Emmanuel Point was loaded with store goods and only one copper Blanca was found. I'm certainly not doubting the possibility of one being here from that period since Pensacola would have been a great watering stop for ships leaving Veracruz for Havana during hurricane season. In fact, I've heard some scholars in our area talk about how Pensacola Bay and Perdido Bays were summer bases for coastal pirates in the period between the first colonization attempt (1559) and establishment of a second settlement (1698).

I have read that a Spanish ship carrying the garrison's annual payroll for 2000 soliders sank during a storm "near Pensacola" in 1733. The vague terms "near Pensacola" could mean at the foot of Pensacola Bay, off Santa Rosa Island, the bar in Pensacola Pass, etc.

I would love to know more about this information you have on the 1559 ship or any of these: 'Intrepido' stranded off Pensacola 1814, 'Volador' lost at Pensacola 1815 carrying a substantial amount of store goods and guns. Both of these were lightly armed Spanish merchant ships.

By the way, here is Siguenza's map of Pensacola Bay (Bahia Santa Maria de Galva) from 1693.



Pcolaboy

 

[ivan salis]

well since this is the only way that I know both of them and since I cannot dive anymore and have no boat ---but I do know how to do my research ---(my strong suit these days) this is the only way I know to contact them theres 3 of us now 4 counting you "chatting about" this one yes I'm sure theres "some no talking" lurkers spying and prying --- this is only basic general info---basically what we have said is "there is a spanish treasure ship from 1559 down somewhere in pensacola bay"---that should not be news to anyone that is a serious researcher---if they want I got lots and lots more info on lots of differant wrecks and will gladly hook up privately with folks for solo rights to the info on any wreck that I have----if they are willing to commit to me likewize -----the info that I talked about is good and solid basic info---however any decent researcher worth their salt should have found it out long ago---if not shame on em---my really "good stuff" I don't share with out "papers signed" spelling out the details and splits from the finds thats SOP ----- I'm just being kind to others out there with a tid bit or two of info -- because it never hurts to have "freinds"--Ivan

 

[Chagy]

I have my gear ready and I am looking for my car keys
this is one of the best threads I have read in a while.....Good sutff guys...

 

[pcolaboy]

I have my gear ready and I am looking for my car keys
this is one of the best threads I have read in a while.....Good sutff guys...

It's cool to hear this coming from an area that actually produces treasure!

Man I could talk about this stuff for hours....unfortunately either my keyboard or fingers will wear out first.

Pcolaboy

 

[rgecy]

ivan,

You have always been one to throw a bone or two out for others! I (and many others) really appreciate the fact that we can share info on wrecks and maybe someone has the skills and equipment to seek it out.

There are plenty of wrecks for all of us! Its just a matter of who is going to get off their but and go look for it!

This is one of the better threads lately! Thanks guys.

 

[ivan salis]

well since I am no longer able to dive (bad lungs---asbestos /copd) I still try to keep my hand in the game the only way I know how---my rather strong --researching skills ---as anyone whos beem in the "game" knows knowledge is the big thing where is the wreck site at? only then are the "recovery" tools of any use---they go hand in glove-- knowledge is what makes the big ones happen---hell I'd love for someone using my info to hit it big say $10 million ---I try to "partner up " with others that still can dive and have the tools to do it--- by sharing my knowledge with them---I humbily ask 10% of the net (silver or gold value only)--after all costs and state fees are done with ---as a piece of the action for my rather highly useful info--I only get a cut if my info leads them to a worthwhile "money" strike---a relics only find brings me zip---Thats seems fair to me I think what do you say?--Ivan

 

[pcolaboy]

....There are plenty of wrecks for all of us! Its just a matter of who is going to get off their but and go look for it!

This is one of the better threads lately! Thanks guys.

I've had NO problem staying off my butt lately since I've had an enlarged prostate for the last two weeks Just what you wanted to hear I know.

Our weather has been so screwy this spring and early summer and I'm hoping to get some dives in soon. Some new developments may help make this happen.....my wife finally got her open water certification last month !!!! Now its just a matter of securing childcare one day on the weekend and we're as good as compressed!

Pcola

 

[Blacksheep 6]

Ivan-I must commend you for being a gentleman and a scholar for the way you have shared your wealth of info on this topic...I'm usually over on the 1715 Fleet threads (OBSESSED with that whole scenario), but just happened to check this one out, very interesting reading indeed...Pcolaboy, you're the one "on station" down there, make something happen!! Good hunting and please keep us updated. And once again,Ivan,thanks for all your input...I may take you up sometime on your research for a cut offer...If I can just get up the balls to ditch Atlanta and relocate to Ft.Pierce !!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Chagy]

I am really enjoying this thread this is "research in action" its amazing what happens when you bring a group of talented people together....Thanks to all for sharing,Ivan, pcolaboy, Guyinblack and all others that have contributed and will contribute to this thread....."Team work" I have always said that; Ordinary goals are achieved by ordinary people making extra efforts....

All the best,

Chagy........

 

[G.I.B.]

I started this thread because I wanted to know the name of the wreck at Pedido Bay. It has really taken on a life of its own and grown into more than that. I believe I've narrowed down the shifting of the mouth of the Perdido to a time frame between 1823 and 1861. So far this appears to be the most comprehensive investigation into the actual naming of the river, and how it's changed along the way. The historical sites I've visited so far are pretty bleak on the actual history, and blatantly incorrect. I've learned a lot along the way.

It would be interesting to see what hurricanes happened in that time frame in the area. Then I would like to find a naturalist account of the event, if it’s out there.

So far it appears that we are talking about two separate wrecks at this point. We seem to now have one in Pensacola Bay and another in Perdido Bay, that are to this point, undiscovered.

We are sharing the generic information in hopes someone can jump in and add a bit or piece relevant to the search as this team effort develops. The final test will be in seeing who actually gets wet and has a good credit card when the actual searching begins. The locations are very generic so far, and any information on this thread is publicly available to all who are willing to search for it. There are some documents that narrow things down a bit further which are being passed 'off-line' while this takes shape. I appreciate the words of caution tho...

Maybe one day we will be able to add our chapter to the success story’s of treasure hunters everywhere.

 

[Chagy]

I have a really good book on hurricanes by Carlos Milla...I found a few hurricanes in Fl 1551, 1554, 1565, 1622, 1634,
1641, 1644, 1695, 1715, 1720, 1733, the book is from 1492-1800 thats all could find....I will read them and post later on, what ever info I can find

 

[Chagy]

Book by Calos Millas

In 1554 coming from Nuena Espana 3 vessels were lost on the coast of Florida; the viceroy send an expedition and all the gold and silver that they brought was recoverd. provably they met the storm after crossing the rigion north of Yucatan Channel to Havana....the winds that caused the disaster were southwerly, since the ships were carried torward the coast of Fl....

Registro del C. de I., fol.67 vuelto.

More later.....

 

[Chagy]

"Armada Espanola" by Fernandez Duro pag.494 0f vol 1

1559 5 navios de gavia and a galleon of the Armada of Tristan de Luna were lost in a hurricane in the Filipina bay in Fl...... only one vessel of Juan Andrea Doria suvived

 

[G.I.B.]

I believe Chagy has just added another whole bunch of ships into the mix. This site is just loaded with lots of more information.

Thanks Chagy ... a zillion more leads!!!

http://www.de-luna.com/Locating-Ochuse.html

 

[MichaelB]

Pcola, is your side scan ready to go?

By the way, to much info about the protate!

MichaelB