Perdido bay Shipwreck

[divewrecks]

Although I am not a knowledgeable follower of this particular thread, I love all the info you guys have shared with the community. Obviously Ivan deserves some title worthy of great mention, so include him in the court of honor. I for one have enjoyed his posts immensely. Stan Dilcher

 

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[pcolaboy]

I'm flattered....I think?!?! I'm certainly no treasure hunting expert and in fact, treasure isn't what motivates me to search and discover things. Obviously though, I would be far from heart-broken if I ever found something monetarily valuable.

I certainly know the waterway and quite a bit of history for my area but I think this is more of a collaborative project and hopefully it will evolve into something a bit more exciting than dead text. Besides, if the state gets the wrong idea about this search, it would be better if I had company in jail . Seriously though, I am certainly going to make sure that all the I's are dotted and T's are crossed concerning the law. ehh...hmmm

My wife left town today for three weeks of training out of state. Needless to say, I will be knee-deep in Mr. Mom activities until then.

Pcola

 

[pcolaboy]

Although I am not a knowledgeable follower of this particular thread, I love all the info you guys have shared with the community. Obviously Ivan deserves some title worthy of great mention, so include him in the court of honor. I for one have enjoyed his posts immensely. Stan Dilcher

Ivan deserves much more than an honorary title beyond this project. I hereby decree Ivan Sails as the "MOST EXCELLENT OMNIPOTENT POTENTATE".

Ivan is a true man of the sea and he gets every ounce of respect from this Florida Cracker.

 

[ivan salis]

this is a odd thing to say but I actually do have a title in a way ---thru the count peter de salis line---(well actually the "family" does really---of course I'm about 43rd in the line -- thus way way down the line---in a king ralph sort of way) --count de salis-- john de salis currently holds the title offically--- it is still a "active" title---P.S. my branch of the family dropped the "de" from our name long ago ---my proper name is " Ivan Roper de Salis" butya'll can call me "the royal researcher""--- P.S. no joke---type in count de salis--look for yourself --- but should things work out correctly and we find that big money wreck---I would be happy to be "count de money" ala mel brooks---ah its good to be the king--- Ivan

 

[divewrecks]

"Count Ivan", cool. much better than the captainship title from the previous posts. Stan

 

[pcolaboy]

Wow nobody has even guessed who is the real subject in the portrait. You "Gold-Coasters" should have a life-sized poster of this guy on your walls and thank him each day for the loot in the waters of east coast Florida.

Anyone gonna guess

Pcola

 

[ivan salis]

king phillip the V of spain --- he was a real nut job---him wanting to jump the bones of his "bride" caused the 1715 fleet to sail even though he was warned it was a bad time to do it---his bride refused to sleep with the whack job till she got "paid" her dowery---which was a huge amount--- thus the dowery and 4 years worth of treasure from 1711 to 1715 (no treasure ships were sent due to the war that finally put him on the throne in spain)---the war was between spain---and england and france---and spain was never the same --the wife really ran things due to his rather nutty behavior----I know my royals fairly well--- "Count" on it-- Ivan

funny thing--- phillip V was his great grandaddy thus the reason he was on the throne in the first place---- matter of fact he changed the law phillip the V put in place that put him on the throne (many say it was his wife that "talked the dying man" into it) which stated that any males of the royal blood line no matter how far removed had the "edge" over any females no matter how close they were as far as who was to rule upon death of the king--- thus kings not queens would rule ---(the wife wanted it otherwize) Ivan

 

[pcolaboy]

Ok well that was pretty close and probably King Phillip V did have more to do with ramping up gold acquisition from the new world. According to the website I got the image from, the pic I attached is actually King Ferdinand VII.

Pcola

 

[diveguide]

P'Cola, That snag was to west /northwest just a touch/ of the center tip of the point that 297 ends near, Inneraity Point. Out in the water Right about the Al Fl line.

Hey P`cola, this snag the capt. is talking about i have listed as a small barge.
Diveguide

 

[ivan salis]

king phillip the V of spain --- he was a real nut job---him wanting to jump the bones of his "bride" caused the 1715 fleet to sail even though he was warned it was a bad time to do it---his bride refused to sleep with the whack job till she got "paid" her dowery---which was a huge amount--- thus the dowery and 4 years worth of treasure from 1711 to 1715 (no treasure ships were sent due to the war that finally put him on the throne in spain)---the war was between spain---and england and france---and spain was never the same --the wife really ran things due to his rather nutty behavior----I know my royals fairly well--- "Count" on it-- Ivan

funny thing--- phillip V was his great grandaddy thus the reason he was on the throne in the first place---- matter of fact he changed the law phillip the V put in place that put him on the throne (many say it was his wife that "talked the dying man" into it) which stated that any males of the royal blood line no matter how far removed had the "edge" over any females no matter how close they were as far as who was to rule upon death of the king--- thus kings not queens would rule ---(the wife wanted it otherwize) Ivan

 

[pcolaboy]

P'Cola, That snag was to west /northwest just a touch/ of the center tip of the point that 297 ends near, Inneraity Point. Out in the water Right about the Al Fl line.

Hey P`cola, this snag the capt. is talking about i have listed as a small barge.
Diveguide

Hey Diveguide...have you actually been down to verify that this was a barge or was it in a list of numbers given to you? Only reason I ask is because I've come across many things in Pensacola Bay that were grossly misinterpreted and 'mislabeled' by the NOAA as well as recreational divers. It's so bad that I've even checked out AWOIS structures that were labeled as "concrete rubble" when in fact two of them were actually ballast piles. You never know.

Pcolaboy

 

[ScubaDude]

Art

 

[Blacksheep 6]

Here's our buddy Phillip V of Spain...Ivan, I believe I read somewhere that he had some mental issues going on and either did, or attempted to, jump his wife's bones after she passed away...any truth to this

 

[divewrecks]

Certainly looks like a "bad hair" day.....Stan Dilcher

 

[ivan salis]

well king phillip the V was trained that sex outside of marriage was a sin by the preist that educated him -- he was basically a sexaholic (plainly put he had to produce an heir and well he liked it) but basically he was tought that sex outside of marriage was wrong and a mortal sin ---plus he needed the help and approval of the church to keep his crown thus no "outside" of marriage sex--- he knew that once his wife died it might be quite sometime before a willing and suitible new wife was found --- thus he wanted to get his "last chance" ----basically he was "drug off of his dying wife's body"---needless to say the gossip caused by this didn't endear him to most women of royal blood---however they finally found him a wife and even though they married the wife would not "seal" the deal until she got "paid" her dowery----king phillips the V urge to "seal" the marriage and spains need for money (since no treasure fleets were sent home to spain from 1711 to 1715 due to the war that put king phillip the V on the throne from 1702--1715) thus the treasure fleet actually had 4 years of treasure on it plus the new queens "jewels" and her huge dowery of emeralds ---this caused it to be one of the riches fleets ever in spanish history----Ivan

 

[G.I.B.]

I've been busy digging in paper, and not sand, the past few days. I'm stuck on this one and could use a little help. I'm unable to find the shipwreck referenced here. The time frame isn't exactly in line with this search and some background hunting I'm doing, but the shipwreck may be interesting.

Any ideas, or did I finally fry some brain cells and need to get away from the computer?

Father Charlevoix was sent from France to explore Canada, partly to look for a route to the Pacific Ocean. (Charlevoix had previously taught grammar in Quebec, Canada for four years.) In 1719-1729, he traveled to the St. Lawrence River area, the Great Lakes region, and the Mississippi River. He noted that the land at the confluence of the Mississippi and Ohio Rivers would be a strategic location for settlement and fortification. Charlevoix also visited the island of Santo Domingo and survived a shipwreck in the Gulf of Mexico.

Charlevoix returned to France in 1723. He later wrote about his travels in his book, Histoire et Description Generale de la Nouvelle France, published in 1744, and Histoire de Saint-Domingue.

I've been able to find web pages that speak of the books, mostly in French, but no direct translations into English I can read.

Pcolaboy: It looks more and more like ye be searching for a Caravelle... Can't prove it just yet, but my best guess is...

 

[pcolaboy]

NEWSFLASH

My kids are staying with my parents tonight. 8) I'm going to try and get off early and head out to do some initial sideimaging from Points 16 through 23 that are indicated within the Google Earth .KML file I posted further up on this thread. I strongly believe that this area was the trickiest part of getting into the main body of Perdido Bay from the gulf back prior to the north-south opening and would stand to reason that it would be a good place to start looking for a "lost" vessel.

Pcola

 

[pcolaboy]

Well I did manage to get off work at 3:30 as I had hoped and hauled ass home. I threw on some shorts, grabbed some water bottles, my sideimaging unit, and some Buffet CD's to listen to in the boat.

Got down to my marina, lowered the boat into the water, went to crank her up and could not get it to fire up. Quick check of fuel lines and fuel filters were fine. About that time the owner of the Marina came by my slip and asked if I got his message on my machine at home. I told him that I basically just ran in to change and then out. He said that there were at least 5 boats on my side of the marina that had their gas siphoned off during the night. I then nervously turned to my gauge panel and confirmed the worst of my fears....ZERO gas. I had about 40 gallons of gas siphoned out of my tank over the course of 24 hours since I was last down at my boat. The marina owner said that there was a man fishing off the bridge that is fairly near the marina who witnessed two large john boats, powered only by trolling motors, cross under the bridge loaded with large plastic drums and headed into the marina at approximately 1AM this morning. What's even more astounding is that the Marine Patrol keeps two of their highspeed boats at this marina and are prominently located on the outer portions of the slips.

I AM COMPLETELY PISSED but there's obviously nothing I can do but hope the thieves burn to a crisp while using my gas - ok not really. That's $140 worth of gas at marina prices for my boat alone. That may not be alot of money to many people but it's essentially half of my monthly 'ration' of fuel to stay on budget.

I'll try and get out again as soon as I can.

Pcola

 

[ivan salis]

time to repel boarders --- too bad I wasn't there---- its quite funny what a 870 remington with load of (goose hunting) steel shot and gas canisters full of stolen gas do when--- mixed together---- on a small john boat----ah "flaming theifs"--- break out the marshmellows and hotdogs on a stick---and watch them screaming and dancing around trying to put out the flames ---is very entertaining indeed for the 15 or so seconds that it last that is.--- just make sure their away from other boats when you "light em up"---- yes I believe in "shooting" theives on sight---Ivan

 

[pcolaboy]

Here is an interesting excerpt from William Bartram on part of his famous journey that included the Pensacola-Perdido-Mobile areas among many others. The date the following events occurred was November 26, 1777.

"The boat in which I had taken a passage to Pearl River, not being in readiness to depart for several days to come, I sought opportunities to fill up this time to the best advantage possible; and hearing of a boat going to the river Perdedo, for the purpose of securing the remains of a wreck, I apprehended this a favourable time to go and search that coast, the captain civilly offering me a passage and birth with him in a handsome light sailing-boat. Set sail early on a fine morning, and having a brisk leading breeze, came to in the evening just within Mobile point; collected a quantity of drift wood to keep up a light and smoke away the mosquitoes, and rested well on the clean sandy beach until the cool morning awoke us.
We hoisted sail again, and soon doubled the point or East promontory of the cape of the bay, stretching out many miles and pointing towards Dauphin Island, between which and this cape is the ship channel.
Coasting along the sea-shore Eastward, we soon came up to the wreck, which being already stripped of her sails, etc, our captain kept on for Pensacola, where we arrived late in the evening. "

It's pretty clear that he referred to hitching a ride with a wrecker that was intending to salvage a wreck near Perdido River (Bay). Obviously this could have been any sort of wreck I suppose but it must have been valuable enough for a wrecker to seize upon it. It would appear that this particular wreck was stranded on the gulf-side unless he forgot to mention details of entering the inlet, and making the narrow passage. Keep in mind that this was 1777, several decades after the report of our frenchman buddy. His spelling of Perdido as 'Perdedo' is interesting but understandable since it is phonetically correct.

Pcola