Please read gentlemen

[jaybreezy58]

A few weeks ago or so i posted a picture of some stones I found that were laying under a toppled tree. The area in which I live and located these stones are in Canton Massachusetts where the ponkapoag indians lived. Its at the foot of the Blue Hills. If you're not from around here i highly recommend researching it. It's very interesting. Our town has a rich colonial history with Paul Revere living here as well. The area has been untouched and i decided on a walk to investigate. I found odd shaped stones of various sizes and shapes. Now, I have common sense, i know not everything is what i wish it would be, but sometimes that gut instinct kicks in and you just cant ignore it. No i have not been doing this long and i am aware that there is thousands of years combined of experience amongst you fine gentlemen. Within the thread there were some comments that were borderline smug and slightly disrespectful when i was trying to explain my observation about a particular stone (not all of them) when i was told they were just rocks. I get it. I do. But if those that commented have all this experience, why resort to those tactics towards me. I am trying to learn. yeah it stinks that they are rocks. Its disappointing but expected. However i just cant let go of this one stone. Maybe my pictures didnt capture what i was trying to say. But I'd like adult responses not people hiding behind a keyboard. I come here for guidance and knowledge and feels like im at chuck e cheese. So if my wise remarks didn't sit well with those that commented i would hope in the future your words will be more carefully chosen. Again, I cant stress this enough , I want to learn from all of you. Not defend myself. I respect all of you and what you bring to the table, me on the other hand , i am an armless waiter, i bring nothing to the table. Accept the willingness to learn. Thank you and God Bless you all.
Jim

 

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[villagenut]

Problem is.....so many new to collecting and looking for artifacts come here with a predetermined notion that they have found the one.....and after posting it with the caption, what is it or what is your opinion, the OP gets tweaked because it is not what they want to hear....even though they want experienced opinions. Sure, a person knows best by holding an artifact in hand before any absolutes can be given but these guys are extremely knowledgeable and you admittedly stated that you were not. There were many, if not most, who respectfully took time to extend their experienced eye on the matter, but you just have to know when to accept the diagnosis and move on because if it is not an artifact, it will never become one by your disbelief, especially if you are not educated yourself as to what you are looking at.

 

[releventchair]

HELP IDENTIFYING THESE PLEASE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

www.treasurenet.com

 

[Treasure_Hunter]

Try to understand we get a lot of new members who are new at indian artifact collecting who insist their rocks are artifacts and no amount of advice from very knowledgeable members who have been finding, studying and collecting Indian artifacts for multiple decades will change their minds.

One of the most common comments new collectors make when told they are natural rocks are "must be my pictures don't show what I am seeing.

The problem is some new collectors use their imagination more than their eyes, said it many times to new collectors and will say it again, don't let how a rock fits your hands be the reason you think a rock is an artifact, it will lead you down the wrong path.

There are many Indian artifact shows held, most likely there is one in your area coming up, take the ones you think are artifacts to a show and see what they say.

 

[antmike915]

Definitely agree with above comments. We all had to start somewhere but once you see, find and hold actual artifacts they'll be no question too you once you start finding them. We're not going to lie, if pictures are posted that aren't artifacts then we'll tell you and give some insight what to look for (shape, how to tell difference between natural marks and those made by man, ect...). Now how you take the answer is actually up too you. We want you to find things (and show us 👍).

 

[MAMucker]

Hello Jaybreezey58,

Welcome to the forum.

I read your post and all of the (many) replies it received. It definitely got a collective review.
The remarks were full of good humor (IMO) and fair advice.
Hysterical Societies aside, Some of us are very well-read and quite familiar with the geography and historical significance of the blue hills area. It’s without a doubt a great place to explore and study.
Regarding the find you insist may be an artifact, there is nothing in the photos that stands out as a clue to its purpose or proof of a connection to NA occupation or Stone Age relevance.
At least not to my eyes or anyone else’s here. But, like someone mentioned, without having it in hand, all we have is a photo.
You could take it to PAL (Public Archeological Laboratories) in RI for an opinion. However, I expect they may need more specific contextual support than what you mentioned.
Also, please make sure that the area you are searching is legal.
Good luck!

 

[creskol]

No doubt about it ...They are the " 🎼 Rocks of Ages Left for Thee 🎼"

 

[sandchip]

I agree with UncleMac's comment in the original post that we've all been there. Fortunately for me, there were no internet forums to post some of the stuff I found in the early days and I eventually figured it out on my own before posting pictures of my wannabe artifacts. Nobody discounted the possibility that your finds may have been utilized as incidental or pickup tools that fulfilled a need at the moment, then discarded, but as far as being manufactured as a tool for a particular purpose, no. Hell, I've done that myself in a pinch. I'm afraid that, as everyone tried to tell you politely at first, that they are just rocks and nothing more.

 

[yakker]

Well, I guess I'm not really supposed to reply because I'm not...a gentleman... but I've never been one to follow directions, so I'm going to anyway.

I can tell by your avatar/name, hand photo and writing style (grammar, spelling) that you're likely 3 years older than I, which means you're new to all this, yet seasoned in life. Good. It's awesome to find new (and amazing) hobbies, and this is an especially cool one- where research is the name of the game, and the pure tactile joy of finding super-old, relevant artifacts. Like wee prizes for getting out, getting exercise and fresh air!

But (if I'm right about your age, give/take), we can be a bit stubborn too. Years of life and experience give us the 'right' to stand our ground and insist (even when we lack a particular experience) we're right.

I know you want to believe you've got some good finds- or at least one id-able artifact, but the fact is- from my eye too- that you do not. So instead of getting offended at the folks who said 'just rocks', and instead of writing long airing of grievances, try asking a couple questions. Go through the pages and pages of forum entries to see what people from your area and beyond have found- and read the comments and discussions.

See, you could be getting a free education here, but few have the time to spoon feed you and make you the teacher's pet. You have to do the work. Lots of reading, lots of exploring- and lots and lots of questions.

I did not understand what a worked piece of stone looked like until I a)saw a real one b)found one that was so obvious there was no mistaking (it was a chert woodland triangle, broken, but obvious). I had no idea about pecked stone tools and how smooth and symmetrical and lovely they were, really, until I found one (years after finding the original broken triangle). And it was obvious. 3/4 in. hasped 7 1/4 in axe.

Hang in there, Jim. Keep looking and taking pix of what you find. Stay away from the super-close-ups as they don't help. And last but not least, you're going to need a slightly thicker skin. No one is insulting you. They are simply id-ing rocks as they see them in photos.

Come back strong and w/ the willingness to learn and grow. It'll be worth your effort. I promise this.

 

[Tdog]

I don't post my opinions on every single thread about such pieces anymore because I've seen this very thing happen many times. It's easy to get defensive once members begin making humorous comments and using sarcasm. I'm guilty of it myself but I think and hope everyone has good intentions, is speaking honestly about what they're seeing and not trying to offend. That said, if folks with questionable rocks/artifacts would do just a little bit of research before putting it out here for the world to see, the negativity and all that goes with it would be curtailed or maybe eliminated altogether. I've been on both ends of it and know it is disappointing to find that no one supports your belief. Now, I put my such finds in the yard in an area where they won't get damaged by lawn mower nor automobile and that's where they stay until I can learn more about them by self education. Just lurking around sites like this, as I did, will teach you a LOT! You can use google to do your own research by looking at thousands of known artifacts and learning about all the techniques used to make these primitive tools and weapons. If you want to belong to this community, you have to be thick-skinned, roll with the punches and accept what knowledgeable folks are telling you. No one can force you to believe what they say so the evidence is what you have to go with--always. Learn how to recognize the evidence. I hope you'll stay and continue to learn with us all.

 

[OntarioArch]

Although I got my start here, and still lurk with much respect, I recently joined Facebook so I could belong to a 'Group' that specializes in NA artifacts from New York State - my neighborhood. It is my first FB experience. The frequency of middle school wise-guy comments is disappointing, to say the least. Apparently they think they're funny.

I've always felt that the folks here are sincere. Nice people. Response to JayBreezy58's original query was extremely patient. Not so on my new FB Group. If you *really want to feel like you're at Chuckie Cheese....join a FB Group!

 

[Lone Star]

A few weeks ago or so i posted a picture of some stones I found that were laying under a toppled tree. The area in which I live and located these stones are in Canton Massachusetts where the ponkapoag indians lived. Its at the foot of the Blue Hills. If you're not from around here i highly recommend researching it. It's very interesting. Our town has a rich colonial history with Paul Revere living here as well. The area has been untouched and i decided on a walk to investigate. I found odd shaped stones of various sizes and shapes. Now, I have common sense, i know not everything is what i wish it would be, but sometimes that gut instinct kicks in and you just cant ignore it. No i have not been doing this long and i am aware that there is thousands of years combined of experience amongst you fine gentlemen. Within the thread there were some comments that were borderline smug and slightly disrespectful when i was trying to explain my observation about a particular stone (not all of them) when i was told they were just rocks. I get it. I do. But if those that commented have all this experience, why resort to those tactics towards me. I am trying to learn. yeah it stinks that they are rocks. Its disappointing but expected. However i just cant let go of this one stone. Maybe my pictures didnt capture what i was trying to say. But I'd like adult responses not people hiding behind a keyboard. I come here for guidance and knowledge and feels like im at chuck e cheese. So if my wise remarks didn't sit well with those that commented i would hope in the future your words will be more carefully chosen. Again, I cant stress this enough , I want to learn from all of you. Not defend myself. I respect all of you and what you bring to the table, me on the other hand , i am an armless waiter, i bring nothing to the table. Accept the willingness to learn. Thank you and God Bless you all.
Jim

It's a shame that many people forget that they were newbies at some point themselves. It's also a shame that some people are stained with a stupidity that is contrary to common behavioral decency amongst fellow enthusiasts. It is basic ignorance to prop oneself up at the expense of another.
I'm sorry you were met with moronic comments when you were seeking knowledge and information. Please don't judge us all by the reactions of a few dumbasses. Many of us take pride in educating and teaching about the things we've learned through experience.
Good luck to you.
Lone Star

 

[Emil W]

It's a shame that many people forget that they were newbies at some point themselves. It's also a shame that some people are stained with a stupidity that is contrary to common behavioral decency amongst fellow enthusiasts. It is basic ignorance to prop oneself up at the expense of another.
I'm sorry you were met with moronic comments when you were seeking knowledge and information. Please don't judge us all by the reactions of a few dumbasses. Many of us take pride in educating and teaching about the things we've learned through experience.
Good luck to you.
Lone Star

When a poster asks for and receives opinions, with the vast majority sharing the same opinion that happens to be directly opposite to the original poster's opinion, the poster has to make a choice.

They can choose to take the opinions seriously and ask for further clarification; or they can disagree politely and move on; or they can do as the original poster in this instance--they can belittle those attempting to educate and begin name calling.

I won't go as far to say that the poster deserved any derogatory comments simply because he was first to make derogatory comments, but I will say no one should be surprised.

 

[Buckleberry]

I won't go as far to say that the poster deserved any derogatory comments simply because he was first to make derogatory comments, but I will say no one should be surprised.

Agreed, and honestly the replies I read barely qualify as derogatory, I said he was being bullheaded AKA stubborn, in the absolute insistence on it being more than a rock, and that was after I had offered him a positive post and qualified the members here, which was mocked.

Jaybrezzy, I am glad you came back and made this other thread. You are going to believe whatever you want, we won't change your mind.
Just know we've been through hundreds of new members just like you who keep insisting what they have is not what our experience tells us it is. That's fine, and most, with very few exceptions such as yourself, usually take their ball (rock) and go home, typically in a negative way.

Believe what you will, but keep looking and also know that almost the entirety of artifacts found here are pre-colonial ( the populations/cultures had been decimated, see: Guns, Germs and Steel), usually 1K years or more. There are usually better places to find artifacts than historical areas, (2nd plateau up from a river, especially at a conjunction with a creek, etc....) and many threads here on how to do so...legally.

 

[Gold Maven]

it fits perfectly in my hand, is always a good one.
my advice is have patience.
eventually you will find something that is without a doubt an artifact.
Good luck.

 

[Tnmountains]

The first thing a new hunter needs to learn to find and recognize is debitage. ( In archaeology, debitage is all the material produced during the process of lithic reduction – the production of stone tools and weapons by knapping stone. From Wiki)

Once you find that and recognize it the artifacts are close.

Learn to recognize what could possibly be a site and why it is there and it will lead you to new sites.

Try to start with multi component sites where you had layer upon layer of occupation.

Happy New Year and good luck.

 

[unclemac]

I literally have a bucket of derbitage. I can't resist picking it up, beautiful flakes from gorgeous exotic stones that I only WISH i had the point for. The most fun is finding a handful of flakes all in the same place where the fellow sat and worked out a point... those flakes I leave alone, they tell a story right there on the ground.

 

[jaybreezy58]

Definitely agree with above comments. We all had to start somewhere but once you see, find and hold actual artifacts they'll be no question too you once you start finding them. We're not going to lie, if pictures are posted that aren't artifacts then we'll tell you and give some insight what to look for (shape, how to tell difference between natural marks and those made by man, ect...). Now how you take the answer is actually up too you. We want you to find things (and show us 👍).

thank you so much for your feedback Sir. I will keep hunting!

 

[jaybreezy58]

Well, I guess I'm not really supposed to reply because I'm not...a gentleman... but I've never been one to follow directions, so I'm going to anyway.

I can tell by your avatar/name, hand photo and writing style (grammar, spelling) that you're likely 3 years older than I, which means you're new to all this, yet seasoned in life. Good. It's awesome to find new (and amazing) hobbies, and this is an especially cool one- where research is the name of the game, and the pure tactile joy of finding super-old, relevant artifacts. Like wee prizes for getting out, getting exercise and fresh air!

But (if I'm right about your age, give/take), we can be a bit stubborn too. Years of life and experience give us the 'right' to stand our ground and insist (even when we lack a particular experience) we're right.

I know you want to believe you've got some good finds- or at least one id-able artifact, but the fact is- from my eye too- that you do not. So instead of getting offended at the folks who said 'just rocks', and instead of writing long airing of grievances, try asking a couple questions. Go through the pages and pages of forum entries to see what people from your area and beyond have found- and read the comments and discussions.

See, you could be getting a free education here, but few have the time to spoon feed you and make you the teacher's pet. You have to do the work. Lots of reading, lots of exploring- and lots and lots of questions.

I did not understand what a worked piece of stone looked like until I a)saw a real one b)found one that was so obvious there was no mistaking (it was a chert woodland triangle, broken, but obvious). I had no idea about pecked stone tools and how smooth and symmetrical and lovely they were, really, until I found one (years after finding the original broken triangle). And it was obvious. 3/4 in. hasped 7 1/4 in axe.

Hang in there, Jim. Keep looking and taking pix of what you find. Stay away from the super-close-ups as they don't help. And last but not least, you're going to need a slightly thicker skin. No one is insulting you. They are simply id-ing rocks as they see them in photos.

Come back strong and w/ the willingness to learn and grow. It'll be worth your effort. I promise this.

Sir, I sincerely thank you for taking the time to reply to this. I am honestly looking forward to learning all of this because it would prevent me from wasting my time on garbage. I will take everyone's criticism and apply to when I go out and hunt. Thank you!

 

[jaybreezy58]

It's a shame that many people forget that they were newbies at some point themselves. It's also a shame that some people are stained with a stupidity that is contrary to common behavioral decency amongst fellow enthusiasts. It is basic ignorance to prop oneself up at the expense of another.
I'm sorry you were met with moronic comments when you were seeking knowledge and information. Please don't judge us all by the reactions of a few dumbasses. Many of us take pride in educating and teaching about the things we've learned through experience.
Good luck to you.
Lone Star

I appreciate the kind words. I will not allow certain comments to deter me from what I love doing. Yes I am knew at going out and actually looking around , but have spent a good amount of time trying to learn on youtube watching others and listening. I dont judge Sir, only God can judge. God bless you. and thank you!