Prehistoric Indian Artifact?

fordphan

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My brother in law found this item at the family homestead many years ago. He took it to the Indian museum in Indianapolis a few years ago, they told him it was a very important piece and was most likely from the Mound Builders who were in the Ill, Ind, Oh. They said it could be as much as 4000 years old. They wouldn't put a price on it as they don't buy things they want donations. The figure looks like a sitting man or woman or possibly a animal of some sort. I would like to know the worth of it or at least some more history. I hope some one can direct me to some one with more knowledge than I. 100_8874.JPG 100_8875.JPG 100_0738.JPG 100_0739.JPG 100_0749.JPG 100_0746.JPG 100_0745.JPG . I have included some new pictures of some of the other items we found in and around our G Great father's farm. There is what they called a "Finger Knife", a large tooth, a "Burin" He was given title to the land in 1893, it included 160 acres. They had to improve the land and build living space in order to remain on the land and get a clear title. Their farm turned out to be the last farm in side the city limits of Indianapolis. We moved there in the 50s, it still had a barn, chicken coop, windmill and several smaller sheds. My brother and I found all sorts of "Neat" things such as glass eggs, pony shoes, hand made nails. The buildings were put together with wooden pegs. The lumber for the buildings came from the land. The property was in our family until 2014, when my brother passed away. My GGF & aunt won many ribbons and prizes at the Indiana State Fair. My aunt won the Grand Prize for her Quilt, she was awarded a set of Sterling Silverware, a big blue ribbon and $50, this was quite bit back then. The funny thing about the silverware, it was engraved with my aunt's initials witch were the same as my brother's. Thanks for all the good info.
 

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The Grim Reaper

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Your pictures are all from the same angle of the same side. You also don't say what it's made from. More pictures of different angle like from the bottom, the front, the other side, and the top would help plus knowing the material. From what I can see in your pictures it looks like something you would buy at a gift shop.
 

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fordphan

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OK you all win! I was hoping to find a site where there was some "Real Help" and interest. But alas this site is like most of the rest, a bunch of know it all's with no real knowledge. Why would I waste my time and the time of the People at the American Indian Center, if this was a pencil topper, game piece, or bought at a gift shop? I'm sure there are some people on this site who are more respectful of others, and to those I apologize for my feelings. You don't have to wait for any more postings from me, I thought this was a genuine site interested in the history of some unique finds, but I was wrong. Please remove me from any future mailings. Thanks.
 

The Grim Reaper

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OK you all win! I was hoping to find a site where there was some "Real Help" and interest. But alas this site is like most of the rest, a bunch of know it all's with no real knowledge. Why would I waste my time and the time of the People at the American Indian Center, if this was a pencil topper, game piece, or bought at a gift shop? I'm sure there are some people on this site who are more respectful of others, and to those I apologize for my feelings. You don't have to wait for any more postings from me, I thought this was a genuine site interested in the history of some unique finds, but I was wrong. Please remove me from any future mailings. Thanks.

You know what, if you want to act like an 8 year old and take your ball and go home then so be it. We are all probably better off for it.

All I asked for was better pictures. You posted 4 pictures of the same side that show no detail of the piece at all and then get all butt hurt when we can't help you?? You didn't even give anyone a chance. And no one said "pencil topper" so I don't know where you got that, but your pictures show nothing to tell us it's not one. If you really want help then post the pictures that we both asked for, your only two replies before you through your little hissy fit, and maybe we can help you out. Or you can leave as you say you are and we will all go on with our daily lives like you never even existed.
 

NCPeaches

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OK you all win! I was hoping to find a site where there was some "Real Help" and interest. But alas this site is like most of the rest, a bunch of know it all's with no real knowledge. Why would I waste my time and the time of the People at the American Indian Center, if this was a pencil topper, game piece, or bought at a gift shop? I'm sure there are some people on this site who are more respectful of others, and to those I apologize for my feelings. You don't have to wait for any more postings from me, I thought this was a genuine site interested in the history of some unique finds, but I was wrong. Please remove me from any future mailings. Thanks.

Ohhhhh stop! We can't touch it so we need more views of it. If you are really wanting to know what it is then set your camera on close up and get directly over it in daylight, take a pic of the front and the back. What material do you think it's made of? Sit it next to a coin or ruler so we can see the size. Most of us on here don't sell or deal in artifacts so can't really put a value on anything in dollars, we are mostly collectors. Give us more to look at but don't get all over sensitive when we're trying to figure it out for you and odds are one of us may or may not know more about it but we need more to go on. More pics please.
 

NCPeaches

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Nitric

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I have very little knowledge in this stuff. But after doing some quick net surfing, they did carve some really good details into rock.

And Fordphan! It's all apart of the fun! People are going to joke around! It makes the research process a little more fun at times! If that's a rare piece? It's going to take some time even for people with knowledge to figure out!! It's not a personal attack on you!! Just a little fun!!


And, sorry to hear about your brother! It's one of the hardest things I've ever had to deal with!! I lost mine in Aug. 2003. So, I might understand some of the Passion or wanting to get the mystery solved.
 

Charl

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Without knowing the background, namely that museum staff ID'd it as prehistoric Native American, I would have just assumed it was an onyx figurine, of the type commonly sold at rock and mineral shows. I can't ID it, but it certainly looks like a modern onyx figurine. Color is right, etcetera. If one googles "onyx figurine", you will see what I mean. Not saying that is what it is, but if no story had come attached to it, that would be my guess every day of the week and twice on Sundays. Because that is exactly what it resembles. Not sure if much closer photos would help, but they would not hurt either.....
 

Charl

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A couple examples of small onyx figurines, to show why this object brought such figurines to mind. The color and luster seems quite similar. The date of 8000 years seems way off, however(That date was cited in the other thread). Adena or Hopewell seem far more likely if the piece were Native American. Which it may very well be, but few of us here are authorities on Hopewell effigies, etc., and the photos are simply not close enough to even know what is actually represented in the carving....

And this is where it was ID'd as prehistoric Native American, FWIW. By knowledgable folks, I wonder?

http://www.americanindiancenter.org/default.php

Looking at the staff and board of directors, I do find myself wondering if any of these folks have sufficient expertise in identifying Native American artifacts? I do hope the original poster understands I am just trying to be thorough here:

http://www.americanindiancenter.org/board.php
 

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Charl

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I think we can now confidently ID this figurine as a modern era onyx "speak no evil" monkey carving. Here is the one from this thread, and the similar examples. The one in this thread is better made, but there is no longer any doubt in my own mind as to what it is.

Obviously, the person or people at the Indianapolis Native American center lacked the experience to identify it, and they were mistaken in thinking it was prehistoric Native American. After looking at their board of director's directory, I had doubts that they really knew what they were talking about, since none were archaeologists or professed to be artifact collectors.

As mentioned earlier, these are very commonly sold at gem and mineral shows. I just saw many examples at the East Coast Gem and Mineral Show a few days ago. Most are small animal figurines.
 

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jmaschal

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Charl you nailed it was looking as well on some sites and found pics with the hole in the bottom as well... Great job researching ImageUploadedByTreasureNet.com1471297012.708604.jpg .
 

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Digum posted a picture that nails it on thread under our N A Indian Artifact Forum.








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The Grim Reaper

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Awesome work Charl on finding those pictures. You definitely nailed it.

Now I wonder if he/she will come back and get the info you provided to help them out. I also amazes me how many museum curators have no clue what an actual artifact is. How could anyone claim this piece is very rare and thousands of years old when they probably sell the same item in their gift shop??
 

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