Proof: Armed Citizens Make Good Government

[0121stockpicker]

Stockpicker, Just what would you suggest as a alternative? fight the govt. in courts THEY control? Protest? Well, I will tell you govt. always get the ruling they want and the leaders don't really care if everyone protests as they will still do what they want. Federal govt. is even tyrannical towards states like Arizona for instance.

Actually you hit the nail on the head.

Lets look at armed uprisings against the us government - whiskey rebellion, civil war, Indian rebellions (both new and old), black panthers, weather underground and sla, randy weaver, Waco. I'm not seeing a lot of success here or the bettering of any situations.

Lets look at some of us histories major changes - even constitutional changes. Civil rights movement, women suffrage, gay rights movement. These have created massive changes in society and even constitutional law and for the most part were done with little or no violence.

I'm no hippie peacenik, but simply a student of history.

 

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[0121stockpicker]

Stockpicker, I am sorry, but for me and millions upon millions of others our forefathers left more than enough writtings to explain why they put the 2nd amendment in our Bill of Rights and a large part of it was to defend ourselves from a government of tyranny....... The dates of their writtings tell what was in their minds and intentions at the time it was being written up and ratified, if you can't see that it is a personal issue it isn't because it isn't there....

Constitution went in to effect on March 4, 1789 and the bill of Rights was raitified in 1791...

“When the people fear the government there is tyranny, when the government fears the people there is liberty.”
-Thomas Jefferson

"I ask, Sir, what is the militia? It is the whole people. To disarm the people is the best and most effectual way to enslave them."
George Mason
Co-author of the Second Amendmentduring Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution, 1788

"We should not forget that the spark which ignited the American Revolution was caused by the British attempt to confiscate the firearms of the colonists."
- Patrick Henry

"A militia, when properly formed, are in fact the people themselves ..."
Richard Henry Lee writing in Letters from the Federal Farmer to the Republic, Letter XVIII, May, 1788.

"The people are not to be disarmed of their weapons. They are left in full posession of them."
Zachariah Johnson
Elliot's Debates, vol. 3 "The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adoption of the Federal Constitution."

"... the people are confirmed by the next article in their right to keep and bear their private arms"
Philadelphia Federal Gazette
June 18, 1789, Pg. 2, Col. 2 Article on the Bill of Rights

"And that the said Constitution be never construed to authorize Congress to infringe the just liberty of the Press, or the rights of Conscience; or to prevent the people of the United States, who are peaceable citizens, from keeping their own arms; ..."
Samuel Adamsquoted in the Philadelphia Independent Gazetteer, August 20, 1789, "Propositions submitted to the Convention of this State"

"To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
Richard Henry Lee
American Statesman, 1788

"Those who hammer their guns into plowshares will plow for those who do not."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States

"The greatest danger to American freedom is a government that ignores the Constitution."
Thomas Jefferson
Third President of the United States

"There are men in all ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to be good masters, but they mean to be masters. "
Noah Webster
American Lexicographer

"What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms."
Thomas Jefferson to James Madison

"We established however some, although not all its [self-government] important principles . The constitutions of most of our States assert, that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves, in all cases to which they think themselves competent, (as in electing their functionaries executive and legislative, and deciding by a jury of themselves, in all judiciary cases in which any fact is involved,) or they may act by representatives, freely and equally chosen; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed;
-Thomas Jefferson to John Cartwright, 1824. Memorial Edition 16:45, Lipscomb and Bergh, editors.

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny.'
"A Bill of Rights is what the people are entitled to against every government, and what no just government should refuse, or rest on inference."

"The constitutions of most of our States assert that all power is inherent in the people; that... it is their right and duty to be at all times armed."

"what country can preserve its liberties, if its rulers are not warned from time to time that his people preserve the spirit of resistance? Let them take arms."
- Thomas Jefferson, letter to Col. William S. Smith, 1787

"The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them."
- Supreme Court Justice Joseph Story of the John Marshall Court

The whole of the Bill [of Rights] is a declaration of the right of the people at large or considered as individuals... It establishes some rights of the individual as unalienable and which consequently, no majority has a right to deprive them of.
- Albert Gallatin, Oct 7 1789

"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it. Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise their constitutional right of amending it or their revolutionary right to dismember it or overthrow it."
- Abraham Lincoln, 4 April 1861

But I don't see a single quote from the constitution stating that citizens have the right to overthrow there own government or armed citizens are a check against their own government. It's just not in there. Any I can take a quote out of context that proves I'm god and that 1 plus 1 equals 3.
But those are good quotes - I appreciate you putting them together. Though as someone stated below I might say you have taken the Lincoln comment out of context. As we all know he was not justifying the south breaking away and taking up arms against the federal government. Best.

 

[worldtalker]

Actually you hit the nail on the head.

Lets look at armed uprisings against the us government - whiskey rebellion, civil war, Indian rebellions (both new and old), black panthers, weather underground and sla, randy weaver, Waco. I'm not seeing a lot of success here or the bettering of any situations.

Lets look at some of us histories major changes - even constitutional changes. Civil rights movement, women suffrage, gay rights movement. These have created massive changes in society and even constitutional law and for the most part were done with little or no violence.

I'm no hippie peacenik, but simply a student of history.

If I may ask,what is your age?

 

[0121stockpicker]

If I may ask,what is your age?

You probably figure im either too young to know any better or too old to care. What's your best guess??

 

[bevo]

lincoln was only concerned with the preservation of the union.he wanted to send the slaves away,but upon further consideration
figured they had put to much blood sweat and tears into this nation to send them anywhere.

 

[bevo]

I think you went to the wrong college

 

[dieselram94]

Colleges, don't always teach the truth

 

[bevo]

not for the last30 or 40 yrs

 

[bevo]

is it not clear that weve been infiltrated?

 

[worldtalker]

You probably figure im either too young to know any better or too old to care. What's your best guess??

Well let's see here,I'm 61 and I still care,I've lived it to see the change as others my age,and all I can say is you damn well better arm your self is my BEST guess.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Actually you hit the nail on the head.

Lets look at armed uprisings against the us government - whiskey rebellion, civil war, Indian rebellions (both new and old), black panthers, weather underground and sla, randy weaver, Waco. I'm not seeing a lot of success here or the bettering of any situations.

Lets look at some of us histories major changes - even constitutional changes. Civil rights movement, women suffrage, gay rights movement. These have created massive changes in society and even constitutional law and for the most part were done with little or no violence.

I'm no hippie peacenik, but simply a student of history.

WELL DONE!

 

[Rebel - KGC]

But I don't see a single quote from the constitution stating that citizens have the right to overthrow there own government or armed citizens are a check against their own government. It's just not in there. Any I can take a quote out of context that proves I'm god and that 1 plus 1 equals 3.
But those are good quotes - I appreciate you putting them together. Though as someone stated below I might say you have taken the Lincoln comment out of context. As we all know he was not justifying the south breaking away and taking up arms against the federal government. Best.

AGAIN... WELL DONE!

 

[dieselram94]

Rebel, you still haven't said why your anti-gun, or did I miss it somewhere?

 

[0121stockpicker]

Well let's see here,I'm 61 and I still care,I've lived it to see the change as others my age,and all I can say is you damn better arm your self is my BEST guess.

Just turned 43 a couple of days ago and with 3 kids I'm well invested in the future path this country takes. That's why I go into ever discussion completely unbiased looking for good well thought out opinions to consider. Plus I find debating points to be a lot of fun. Best

 

[dieselram94]

You sure don't come across unbiased...

 

[worldtalker]

Just turned 43 a couple of days ago and with 3 kids I'm well invested in the future path this country takes. That's why I go into ever discussion completely unbiased looking for good well thought out opinions to consider. Plus I find debating points to be a lot of fun. Best

You got my vote son,glad to get that issue cleared up,didn't set right with me anyhow.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Rebel, you still haven't said why your anti-gun, or did I miss it somewhere?

You DID miss it... I have TWO guns. I am NOT "anti-gun"... I am against OVER-KILL guns.

 

[bevo]

are you debating just to debate?

 

[Red James Cash]

Rebel, you still haven't said why your anti-gun, or did I miss it somewhere?

You wont get an answer because he's to busy playing the part of his own definition of a rebel.Be a rebel against anything and everything and never stand for a thing.

 

[dieselram94]

Rebel, you previously stated one shot was enough. So using your logic and assuming your guns are only capable of only one shot. Two guns= two shots? Then aren't you in violation of your own beliefs?