pulse valve mineral jig build... need valve seat design help

[spudnick]

For sure Jim, Seems like an optimum level is needed for efficiency with a low pressure pulse unit. By the way, that last test i did was a rough estimate. ( guesstamite ) , water volume and p/p/min . I should have set up a timer to count the P/P/min accurately. It was a sloppy test , just to get a rough idea on effect. Well, if your jig is running 9 gal. min + , that makes a lot of sense, as per screen box size. A lot of variables to consider... Ken

Trapped air, another concern for sure, especially with a tall stand pipe. My vacuum pump test i did with the steel stand pipe was not conclusive. I did find that there was not very much air trapped, but how much ? Was difficult to measure. I was surprised , thinking there would be substantial air at the top. If a stand pipe valve was installed at the lower stand pipe area. The closed system could be pressurized to blow off the air , through a top level bleed off- valve. OR, a strategic site glass installed to visually inspect the internal actions in progress.

: Example of trapped air in a low pressure water circulation system.:
This picture is an enclosed wood heater ,that heats water running through 2 radiators. One radiator laying horizontal ( red tape ), and a vertical radiator to the right ( green tape ). I run this system at 5 PSI, with a 60 watt magnetic drive pump. The pump pushes water into the bottom ( red tape )area horizontal rad, water carrys on through the vertical rad, and out at ( green tape ) area. The hot water then goes down to floor heat manifold... So, at times ,i have air trapped that will not migrate downwards. I have to Pressurize the water system to 20-30 psi, then open the (green and red tape) valves to blow out the air. If i do not pre- pressure and just crack the (green tape) valve open, it will suck more air in. .. That is why i expected an air pocket in the pulse valve. May be worth building in a design to eliminate the possibility of air ? like you say Air in the system , even with my mechanical jigs, has a negative effect.): Even a very small amount of air. ?

 

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[Jim in Idaho]

Heck, I've even thought of installing an air bleed valve on the diaphragm of my jig. I've had air trapped under it before. I just need to lower the diaphragm end when filling the hutch. A small valve on the diaphragm of a pulse-valve unit would be a good idea. Just open it up until water comes out.
Jim

 

[spudnick]

Jim, i might be overthinking this, as i have a tendency to do. Lol ... If you happen to post another thread on one of your gemstone adventures, maybe put a link on this thread , like you did on (post # 57 of this thread. http://www.treasurenet.com/forums/rocks-gems/503073-wyoming-trip-last-week.html ) That way i wont miss anything. Thanks.. Ken

 

[Jim in Idaho]

No problem, Ken. or I'll send you a PM. I don't plan on returning to Wyoming for a couple of months....too stinking hot. Combine heat with the 6500' elevation, and working in that is really tough for a guy 67 years old!
Jim

 

[Diamond-digger]

Hey Ken, Really nice build. I contacted you under the Pan American jig thread. All of my pulse jigs use flat seals. They are silicone toilet flapper valves with the cone part cut off. They work really good. The diaphragm material is all inner tube.
There is less than 10 lbs of pressure for my design using a bilge pump as the driver. My outlet tube is fairly long. The longer length sets up a vacuum that helps close the valve. You can build these using shorter tubes and higher pressures along with stronger springs and diaphragms but they are more difficult to start the pulse (something I read). Your build is really nice and I hope you fixed your valve problem. When these things are working they are really cool.

 

[Diamond-digger]

yep. I increased the stand pipe diameter and the input tube diameter; it made a big difference. This first valve I made like the one in the video sat really low. I did raise it on later builds and it still works fine.

 

[Diamond-digger]

Wow, looks like a NASA lab, way cool. Ok I'm the guy that built the PVC pulsators shown in the video. Here is some ideas. Look at the depth of the pulse chamber just below your diaphragm. I'm not sure but the commercial units like the old YT-12s are a little deeper. The PVC one and my later builds have a little deeper chambers for more water to accumulate in. My stand pipe is high and it creates a vacuum as the water flows out and helps seal the inner valve. The inner valve seal is also fairly soft and flat so it seals around the inner stand pipe. My pulses won't start until the hutch is almost filled with water; So I think a little back pressure helps. I would love to see the inner workings of the Pro-Pulse or YT-12 units. I think the secret is in the inner valve design. Those units have short stand pipes, large in and out pipes, in fact they are almost the same diameter.

 

[spudnick]

Diamond-digger , Thanks for the complements on my build.,, I can see your valve working with more pressure than mine, your silicone seal would stay in place as the tire tube expands . That is a good concept to consider !!! . ( an internal control to build up water pressure ). I did try an internal magnetic control , that i have not posted on. It was not successful. I have not worked on it since. Most likely will be back working on it this winter. There is a lot of quality information on this thread and a lot of experienced contributors , which i appreciate very much... Knowledge and communication is the key to success. Thanks for posting.. Ken

 

[Diamond-digger]

Ken,
All those YT12 jigs are really simple. I wish I could get an internal view of the valve system. I know the concept is based on the old hydo coal jig diagram that is out on the internet. The water pulsator jigs are not in favor for gems like diamonds because the bed displacement is not high enough. They are really good for gold. I guess the only real advantage to using a water pulsator is its mechanical simplicity, if you can get them all tuned up. I really like Jim's miniature Pan American Jig. Side by side I know Jim's jig will have a higher recovery rate for gems. Please keep the thread going and let us all know how your experiments are going.