question about gold claims

[rob95610]

question about gold claim date stamp

I was out exploring the mountains with my son and we came across a mining claim. We are in California. The date stamped was 1994 but the papers looked like they were stapled to the tree fairly recently, sometime this year I assume. The plastic sleeve and paper were in very good condition and barely weathered at all.

What is the deal with this? Should the papers be date stamped this year to be a valid claim?

I must be doing something right. Our first trip out prospecting and we find a mining claim within minutes of arriving! We went downstream a ways and panned out some flakes. Pretty good day hiking. We saw a fox and some salamanders. The gold we got looked like more in the pan. Now it's in the vial and it is barely anything LOL!

Anyhow, the dirt on this supposed claim looks pretty good and I want to dig some. But I want to make sure that I won't be claim jumping. I suspect that this claim paperwork is fake just to scare off the greenhorns like me!

 

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[mikep691]

That information came from my tax assessor office when they tried to tax me on recorded (county) but not followed through with BLM. They said effective this year, all recordings would be taxed as real property regardless of BLM status. So once you record in this county, you are responsible for the real property tax regardless of the follow through with BLM. This may be where those corner markings and signage save your butt. We all know about due diligence, and we also know not to trust BLM to do their job. Proof of recordation, pictures of markers, are your evidence. I, more than anyone would like to tell BLM to stick their system where the sun don't shine, and it seems this county agrees.

Best policy and advice is file it right, document it right, do your homework first and put your feet on the ground.

 

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[mikep691]

Where doe the BLM record the claim maps? The only legal entity for recording a claim is the County and the County does record the Notice of Location that includes a map of the claim right?

BLM records your map at the State office, and they issue your "MC #" when it's verified. We know they don't check anything, as they only want your money. Then they raise your fee every year to keep you from succeeding. I know this from viewing the LR2000 reports that have 200 acres of claims in a quadrant within a section that can only have 160 acres. They say "Information only " agency and can't/don't validate or verify ANYTHING. And they won't. It's up to us to keep current in our county. BUT you need to realize the Recorder Office is there just to record your documents. They don't verify, validify or anything else. You are responsible for EVERYTHING.

 

[bobw53]

Where doe the BLM record the claim maps? The only legal entity for recording a claim is the County and the County does record the Notice of Location that includes a map of the claim right?

All the county does is RECORD.. 50 people could walk in, one right after the other and file on the same claim... They don't care... The job of the nice
ladies at the clerks office is to record documents, and then help you find the documents. What is on those documents means not one single stinking
thing to them... I could go in and pay my $10 and file an affidavit that says I had a ham sandwich for lunch. They would take my $10, and it
would be officially recorded for all the world to see that I had a ham sandwich for lunch.

Just one more thing that makes mineral rights claims a big giant confusing pain in the ass... But its the only thing we have to work with.

It would be absolutely awesome if there was a place that had a map of where all the claims were, but there isn't.. You can get close, but
you'll never know exactly where they are unless you go down to the clerks office and pull all the paperwork and make your own map.

 

[SLNugget]

For the record, I never said the County Recorder/Auditor verified your claim. Nor does the BLM except in rare cases. Usually when an overly enthusiastic employee gets even more confused than normal. But the County records are the legal documents in any legal process involving your claim(s). It would be nice if we could or would go back to Mining Districts and govern ourselves. But trying to organize prospectors/miners is akin to herding cats. Although there have been some recent developments that show hopeful signs of us working together to achieve a common goal.

MyLandMatters.org while not perfect is an excellent resource for claims information.

 

[mikep691]

Oldest date wins in any court of law. I didn't have to predate anything where my claim is, I messed up the year before and had to relocate. Go figure there were no closed claims listed either. Now, only my old claim is listed. Scammers will sell your land without ever touching it. And unsuspecting buyers think they own a gold mine. We can't afford the lawsuits that it takes to protect ourselves, but it's our only recourse.

 

[bobw53]

For the record, I never said the County Recorder/Auditor verified your claim.

I was just clarifying what the county clerk does and does not do. I got into this game not all too long ago, and I was surprised
by how how bassackwards it really is. There really is no governing body, nobody is in charge of it... Its really open ended and
spans local, state and federal laws and jurisdictions. Its F'n crazy, a bureaucrat's wet dream.

 

[KevinInColorado]

While I may be incorrect in stating "NOT REQUIRED", allow me to correct it: Initially, all placer claims must be corner marked. While it's strongly advised,, they do not need to maintained in some states. after the initial recording, and subsequent BLM filing, it's the paperwork thing that keeps it valid. An FYI: Plumas County, Ca. Will now tax all claims as real property, whether filed with BLM or not. In my opinion, this eliminates the BLM from control within this county. It however does not protect the claimee from over filing as the county does not map the claims. They still rely on BLM for the mapping of claims (and we know what kind of job they actually do here). It remains extremely important (and required) that you record your maps as well as the NOL.

Warning to the casual reader: This post has inaccuracies.
1. Corner marking requirements vary by state, not always required. A claim is equally valid with or without claim markers from an "on the ground pov".
2. The comment about eliminating BLM control is wrong. Nothing a local government can legally do overrides Federal law.
3. Nobody in govt maps claims, that's the job of the prospector, claimant or otherwise. Both BLM and County will take your money for a claim that covers the very land their office sits on! No, that doesn't mean you can mine it.

 

[NeoTokyo]

Butte Creek BLM rec area East of Chico hwy 32

I KNEW IT!

You were the lucky son of a gun that found the Butte Nugget weren't you?! lol

I have been wanting to go there for quite a while now.

 

[mikep691]

Warning to the casual reader: This post is full of fallacies and inaccuracies.

Which part Kevin? As it's been stated, the laws vary from state to state. And the part about property taxes in Plumas county came directly from the assessor.

 

[KevinInColorado]

Which part Kevin? As it's been stated, the laws vary from state to state. And the part about property taxes in Plumas county came directly from the assessor.

I edited the original post to be more specific...

 

[Goldwasher]

Plumas must be one of the few still collecting a tax in California I'm in El Dorado and no tax here..
Nothing really confusing about claims or the process if you just pay attention and your due diligence.

 

[fowledup]

It typically depends on claim size in most counties. Not worth the adminstrative costs for smaller twenty acre claims

 

[fowledup]

I KNEW IT!

You were the lucky son of a gun that found the Butte Nugget weren't you?! lol

I have been wanting to go there for quite a while now.

Man I wish that was true! Come on down it's a beautiful area for sure with lots of gold left.

 

[fowledup]

That information came from my tax assessor office when they tried to tax me on recorded (county) but not followed through with BLM. They said effective this year, all recordings would be taxed as real property regardless of BLM status. So once you record in this county, you are responsible for the real property tax regardless of the follow through with BLM. This may be where those corner markings and signage save your butt. We all know about due diligence, and we also know not to trust BLM to do their job. Proof of recordation, pictures of markers, are your evidence. I, more than anyone would like to tell BLM to stick their system where the sun don't shine, and it seems this county agrees.


You should file or record a notice of abandonment at the county if your not going to follow through with claiming it. Most counties have a form to fill out (I didn't see one at the Plumas website, might need to call) and it costs a few bucks to record. I wish more folks would follow thru with this. It's get very frustrating to do the homework only to find out that a "claim" at the county was not followed thru with. All it does is muddy up the water even more, that would be the miners fault not the counties or BLM. With todays technology I can pretty much find out all I need to know on a particular area of interest from the comfort of my couch. Once I have done this, I take the mandatory trip to the County offices for the final real world confirmation. Then I can go to the piece I'm interested in armed with all the beuracratic info needed. Do some sampling and proofing and make an informed decision on whether or not it's worth the time and effort. Doing it this way you know your not overclaiming, "claim jumping" or "high grading" another persons claim. Then it's a simple matter of following the step by step BLM and County requirements for locating and filing a mining claim. All the steps are on-line or if your lucky you can scrounge up one of the books. It isn't a mystery or rocket science- it takes work, time, and following a proper progression of steps, which in this day and age of immediate gratification is a hard pill to swallow for some.

 

[mikep691]

Warning to the casual reader: This post has inaccuracies.
1. Corner marking requirements vary by state, not always required. A claim is equally valid with or without claim markers from an "on the ground pov".
See Ratled's response to bobw53's post. If that doesn't include markings initially, then I am incorrect and Federal law does not apply.
2. The comment about eliminating BLM control is wrong. Nothing a local government can legally do overrides Federal law.
What part of "IN MY OPINION" did you miss?Remember, there was no such agency when the mining laws were written, and if I record my claim at the county, maintain all filings thereafter in the county, and pay my property taxes, is it not just as legal of a claim as it would be if I paid the $155+ (per 20 acres) to blm so they can allow someone else with paperwork that includes my claim to file as well.
3. Nobody in govt maps claims, that's the job of the prospector, claimant or otherwise. Both BLM and County will take your money for a claim that covers the very land their office sits on! No, that doesn't mean you can mine it.

We all know BLM doesn't verify anything, that's why there are 200 acres of claims in quadrant that only has 160 acres. It was intended that they would verify and validate your claim, but somehow they missed that point.

 

[mikep691]

That information came from my tax assessor office when they tried to tax me on recorded (county) but not followed through with BLM. They said effective this year, all recordings would be taxed as real property regardless of BLM status. So once you record in this county, you are responsible for the real property tax regardless of the follow through with BLM. This may be where those corner markings and signage save your butt. We all know about due diligence, and we also know not to trust BLM to do their job. Proof of recordation, pictures of markers, are your evidence. I, more than anyone would like to tell BLM to stick their system where the sun don't shine, and it seems this county agrees.


You should file or record a notice of abandonment at the county if your not going to follow through with claiming it. Most counties have a form to fill out (I didn't see one at the Plumas website, might need to call) and it costs a few bucks to record. I wish more folks would follow thru with this. It's get very frustrating to do the homework only to find out that a "claim" at the county was not followed thru with. All it does is muddy up the water even more, that would be the miners fault not the counties or BLM. With todays technology I can pretty much find out all I need to know on a particular area of interest from the comfort of my couch. Once I have done this, I take the mandatory trip to the County offices for the final real world confirmation. Then I can go to the piece I'm interested in armed with all the beuracratic info needed. Do some sampling and proofing and make an informed decision on whether or not it's worth the time and effort. Doing it this way you know your not overclaiming, "claim jumping" or "high grading" another persons claim. Then it's a simple matter of following the step by step BLM and County requirements for locating and filing a mining claim. All the steps are on-line or if your lucky you can scrounge up one of the books. It isn't a mystery or rocket science- it takes work, time, and following a proper progression of steps, which in this day and age of immediate gratification is a hard pill to swallow for some.

Actually, the majority of the additional claims fell under a relocation of the original first claim so the assessor,, not seeing this, just sent out the billing. A simple call to them and a few minutes got it squared away. And that was my first year rookie mistake. We may be filing an additional 60 acre extension claim that will give us nearly 1 1/2 miles of bedrocked creek to play with. We think the $40 per year tax is affordable.