Question on ethics and the law on found items.

[Jeffro]

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache...f+CFR+found+property&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=us

I found what you are refering to in the 36 CFR chapter 1 sec 2.22. These are regulations.

 

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[Ranger Paul]

That's it. 2.22 (3)
Thanks for going to the effort of looking that up. I knew it existed. The Ranger is an extension of the Superintendent in securing found property. That stute doesn't specify the chain of command, but that's basically it.
RP

 

[Ranger Paul]

FYI, I don't agree with all the laws, especially federal ones, and I am no longer a Ranger. When I was sworn to uphold the laws, I had no choice. I was a very good Ranger, and was proud to be one.
BTW, Waco and Ruby Ridge soured my opinion of the way our federal government and law enforcement agencies work. I am just a regular citizen now, but still am fond and proud of my days as a Ranger.
RP

 

[DennisB]

This may be a little off topic but let's say you take a small trip into Canada. Now everyone knows that Canadian coins are magnectic. Let's say that you go to a park that has a fountain in it. Would it be ethical to do a little magnet fishing?


Dennis

 

[treasurejack]

Ranger paul,

Sending you an e-mail, maybe you can help me with something?

 

[TreasureTales]

FYI, I don't agree with all the laws, especially federal ones, and I am no longer a Ranger. When I was sworn to uphold the laws, I had no choice. I was a very good Ranger, and was proud to be one.
BTW, Waco and Ruby Ridge soured my opinion of the way our federal government and law enforcement agencies work. I am just a regular citizen now, but still am fond and proud of my days as a Ranger.
RP

Thanks for the info. I feel more relaxed talking to you now. LOL I would never pick up ANYTHING in a National Park because it just isn't worthe hassle. Even if you turn it in, you have to give your life history before they let you go on your way. And all you tried to do was be helpful. It doesn't pay to touch stuff in the NP.

I totally agree about Ruby Ridge and Waco - "authorities" were way too tyranical for me in those cases.

 

[SC_hunter]

Just thought this was interesting....especially the last few sentences...HH
http://www.outdooreyes.com/lostandfound.php3

 

[Ant]

The following story is why we should all keep our trap shut when we find something we want to keep. Shame on you EX Sheriff Floyd Tidwell.

Quote from another site.

" 05/12/2004 Archived Entry: "Sheriff steals hundreds of guns -- and what else?"

YOU'VE JUST GOT TO LAUGH AT THE WAY THE FATES OPERATE. Yesterday Free-Market.net linked to this news story about former San Bernardino County (CA) sheriff, Floyd Tidwell. Seems that Tidwell, who served as sheriff throughout the 1980s:


... took at least 523 guns from the department. ...

"Tidwell used to go through the property division periodically, as if shopping, to take his pick of weapons."


He took perfectly legal guns that should have been returned to their owners. He took full-auto weapons, illegal to possess without a Class III federal license. He sold 'em. He gave 'em away. He hoarded 'em. He used 'em in the sheriff's department. He wasn't fussy.

Happens that I have a felonious friend who misspent a lot of his youth in San Bernardino County. The county liked him so well that it invited him to stay in its guest facilities for extended periods. And its officers often stopped him on the streets for extended chats, a friendly little pat-down, and quick jaunts to their downtown hangouts.

When he heard the news, my friend exclaimed, "I know Tidwell! That rat-bastard. They don't mention all the drugs and jewelry he took, do they?"

Seems it was standard department practice -- known to all the local druggies, if not to the nice, respectable people in the district attorney's office -- for San Bernardino County deputies to stop people known to be petty criminals, strip them of their valuables, then let them go. Like, you know these people are not going to go down to the sheriff's office to demand their $100 bills, wristwatches, and dime bags back, right?

So now Tidwell is in trouble. Well, not exactly. Think for a moment about what state or fed officials would do to you if you stole more than 500 firearms, and kept machine guns without a license. Fifteen years in prison, maybe?

Well, silly you for not becoming a "public servant." Tidwell will serve no time in prison or jail, as long as he helps the government get the guns back. No word on whether any of the guns will ever be returned to their rightful owners."

 

[renegade_7]

I've returned items and received sincere thanks. I've returned items and had the door slammed in my face once the item was handed over. I've had cops question ME about wallets I've turned in to them - with the money intact - as if I'm a crook. So I learned my lessons and came up with my own code of ethics which seem fair and reasonable to me. I can live with myself. I make every effort to return things that could be IDed by the rightful owner. Doesn't matter how long the item may have been gone from him. If I cannot find the rightful owner after trying as hard as I can, I will consider it mine.

I live by the Treasure Hunters Code of Ethics and I add a few more points to it - but I did the work to find the stuff, so my priority is to myself. If I can find the rightful owner - great. If I can't - well it's my lucky day!

That's how I see it. I too try to be an ethical THer, but let common sense prevail!

 

[Jeffro]

FYI, I don't agree with all the laws, especially federal ones, and I am no longer a Ranger. When I was sworn to uphold the laws, I had no choice. I was a very good Ranger, and was proud to be one.
BTW, Waco and Ruby Ridge soured my opinion of the way our federal government and law enforcement agencies work. I am just a regular citizen now, but still am fond and proud of my days as a Ranger.
RP

I understand, and I would be too. My whole point in the prior discussion was that the CFR's are regs, not laws. Only title 5 has been administered as law, and ratified. The others are merely "rules" which we all live by. You (previously) by doing your job, and the guy who backed down by giving up the leatherman. Being as it was a title 1 Regulation, it could've gone either way in court.

The CFR's are not anything to screw around with, and I wouldn't recommend it too the general public, but there are a lot of grey areas there which unscrupulous lawyers will set precedent by. Like I said before, it could go either way.

And I publicly apologize for misleading you.

 

[Ranger Paul]

You are correct also. They are regulations, which on federal lands the CFR is basically the law. Like I said, Rangers are not judges, however they must use good judgement in applying the law or writing citations. The guy that didn't turn in the leatherman was going to get a minor citation, however, when he decided to basically run out of the Ranger station, he opened a whole "nuther" can o worms.
I apologize for not being clearer on the CFR, and for being a bit abrupt on the earlier post.
RP

 

[treasurejack]

Thanks for the info Paul. Appreciate it.

 

[packerbacker]

If you google "41 cfr" you will get close to the Federal regs. you are asking about. You have to go to part 109-48 to get a little closer. Then it gets a little vague. These regs. are basically for the federal employee to follow. They actually differ between federal agencies. Dept. of Energy regs. for the same thing may differ slightly from the Reclamation, Park Service or BLM regs.. The General Services Administration is the bottom line decision maker when questions arise. I just happen to be part of the Federal Property Management and Disposal system. The federal regs will drive you crazy if you let them.
PS-I even returned a racing pigeon that was injured and on our property. It took some internet work tracking the birds tag and some long distance phone calls. I brought in a cage and feed to house the bird and feed it. A few days later, it was picked up by a thankful owner that lived over a hundred miles away. This was all done at no cost to the owner and the reward that I was offered was not accepted. The average federal employee?? I'd like to think so.

 

[Ranger Paul]

Packerbacker,
Cool story, and not uncommon for one "average federal employee". I've had the pleasure of meeting many unselfish people that were federally employed. I once dogsat for 2 days while a person wanting to hike into the back country could do so. (Dogs are not allowed into the back country.)
RP

 

[Ant]

You are right about CFR's pertaining to Federal Employees. Now if the Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) is posted in the Federal Register, they become Law to all. BLM and other Federal Agencies make Code and Rules and Register them all the time. One day you might be legal, and the next day you might be in Jail.

IMHO most of these laws are BS. Our State and Federal Lands have much to many Rules and Regulations to follow and more coming everyday.

Freedom only comes from the end of a barrel. Who said that?

Here's Uncle's Federal Registry link:
http://origin.www.gpoaccess.gov/fr/

 

[Pipster]

As far as i know the moral thing is to try and track down the owner, i have found a few rings at parks and old schools and have never been able to find the owners to them. but i feel you should attempt to find its owner. rember the trill of the find almost matches the satisfaction of returning it to its owner