questions about the Lost Dutchman

[copperpot]

The Jesuit order had a college that made loans to prospectors. If a mine was found and the loan not paid off the college ended up with the mine. Thus the Jesuits found them selves in the mining business through their college
At least that's what I read in a bio on Kino

ahhhh Bankers! gotta love em.

 

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[copperpot]

Hey Terry,

You don't believe in hidden mines in the Superstition Mountains?

Next time you get out Goldfield way, ask Bob about The Mormon Stope of the Mammoth Mine if you don't believe what I say.

In 1951, the Mammoth Mine was winding down. Not a lot of production. One day while digging, they broke into a very old adit (horizontal mine shaft). When they entered the adit, they found there was no exit. They back tracked to both ends of the shaft, and at one end, they found lumber blocking the entrance. From the outside, you couldn't tell anything was behind the slew of rock and dirt. After digging through the debris, they found the lumber that blocked the entrance. They worked the Mormon Stope from 1951 until 1953, when that vein played out. They took about $2.3 million from that HIDDEN MINE SHAFT.

Also, ask around about the "Pit Mine" near Roger's Spring in the SWA. A group of people worked that pit during only the Summer months for three years (1997-1999). Nobody has ever admitted what was mined there, but a couple of the group are quoted as saying they found the LDM, so that says they weren't mining uranium. You will probably never see anything documented from The Pit Mine since it is in the SWA, but ask around. Somebody might say something to you.


Mike

Do you (or anyone else) think that there are still any hidden mines(shafts or pits) in the Superstition Mountains (and surrounding area) with rich ore with gold?

 

[Hal Croves]

Do you (or anyone else) think that there are still any hidden mines(shafts or pits) in the Superstition Mountains (and surrounding area) with rich ore with gold?

Asking opinions will only get you so far. Do the research and come to your own conclusions. A quick look at historical newspaper reports will give you some answers.

 

[copperpot]

Asking opinions will only get you so far. Do the research and come to your own conclusions. A quick look at historical newspaper reports will give you some answers.

Ok, cool thanks. Yeah, I recently got a book about researching (and deep research) into treasure hunting and metal detecting. A good book, and I have yet to implement its techniques directly. That article you provided was interesting. In the article it appears that it was identified as ore with gold in it, but not if it was rich in gold or not? But I still like hearing some opinions of others, and on this forum, as it can be fun and entertaining.

 

[Azquester]

Ok, cool thanks. Yeah, I recently got a book about researching (and deep research) into treasure hunting and metal detecting. A good book, and I have yet to implement its techniques directly. That article you provided was interesting. In the article it appears that it was identified as ore with gold in it, but not if it was rich in gold or not? But I still like hearing some opinions of others, and on this forum, as it can be fun and entertaining.

Cat, I read all there was to read on metal detecting, gold prospecting and treasure hunting. All I got was sore eyes. I spent many years researching learning systems translating various language's and all I had to show for it was trash! Bullets, Wire, Nails, Cans, Scrap!

It wasn't until I happened upon an old timer and his partner before I saw how it was done. At least the dry washing part of it. That got me going now I found gold nuggets with my Gold Bug because I can see where and how the gold runs in clay or washes!

I would suggest getting close with an old timer and have him show you how to get the Gold.

Treasure, that's a different story. Hit the Arizona state museum and stay there for months. Go to the University Library and live there for a while.
Read all the Treasure symbol and signs books you can afford. Study each and every one of them try to memorize as much as possible.

The only way to solve any Treasure stories which in my case is lost gold mines is to get out and hopefully stumble onto a Treasure / gold mine site like I did. That requires a level head, strong back, muscles of steel, a hard head, never ever giving up and never trusting anyone else's opinion or their honesty!

I don't know how many times I asked for some help and ended up with bogus information!


Trust in yourself and your own abilities.

Be Safe and good luck.

 

[Azquester]

Bill:

Jacob Waltz stated: "no miner or cowboy will find my Mine". This quote is from the book: "THE BIBLE OF THE LOST DUTCHMAN MINE AND JACOB WALLTZ". I am not a miner or a cowboy. I am just a crazy old man. I write supposition essays about Native American rock art (petroglyphs and pictograph) anything else that interests me. A year or two ago while travel to a pictograph site I injured myself in the Anza-Borrego desert. I was laid up in a wheelchair for two to three months. During this time read an article about the Peralta Stones and the Lost Dutchman Gold Mine at "desertUSA.com". I wrote a supposition essay interpretation of Peralta Stones title: "Lost Dutch Gold Found" which is part of the "e" book titled: "THE STONE SPOKE". The forgoing "e' book is available at lulu.com or barnesandnoble.com.

However, you need not need to purchase the book. According, to my interpretation of the Peralta Stones the stones available lead you to the Freemont Saddle in the Superstition Mountains. Therefore, there must have been oral tradition that leads you the rest of the way to the LDM. In addition, if one listens closely, to Jacob Waltz's in The BIBLE ON THE LOST DUTCHMAN GOLD MINE AND JACOB WALTZ one can find the mine.

Again Bill, I am not a miner, so I will answer your questions a best I can. Jacob Waltz brought back gold ore to town, very rich gold ore. The Lost Dutchman Gold Mine was a 4'x4'drift mine. There are tailings from the mine. However, if one knows where the mine is one will know where the tailings are. Then again, if one can find the tailing one can find the mine.

A word of warning the Lost Dutchman Mine is more red than yellow. It is bloody. Goody Luck and good hunting!

Sincerely, A CRAZY OLD MAN

Crazy Old Man, are you talking about me?

Or another Bill!?

 

[Hal Croves]

Cat, I read all there was to read on metal detecting, gold prospecting and treasure hunting. All I got was sore eyes. I spent many years researching learning systems translating various language's and all I had to show for it was trash! Bullets, Wire, Nails, Cans, Scrap!

It wasn't until I happened upon an old timer and his partner before I saw how it was done. At least the dry washing part of it. That got me going now I found gold nuggets with my Gold Bug because I can see where and how the gold runs in clay or washes!

I would suggest getting close with an old timer and have him show you how to get the Gold.

Treasure, that's a different story. Hit the Arizona state museum and stay there for months. Go to the University Library and live there for a while.
Read all the Treasure symbol and signs books you can afford. Study each and every one of them try to memorize as much as possible.

The only way to solve any Treasure stories which in my case is lost gold mines is to get out and hopefully stumble onto a Treasure / gold mine site like I did. That requires a level head, strong back, muscles of steel, a hard head, never ever giving up and never trusting anyone else's opinion or their honesty!

I don't know how many times I asked for some help and ended up with bogus information!


Trust in yourself and your own abilities.

Be Safe and good luck.

Easier said than done. Still I think your advice is as good as it gets.

 

[copperpot]

Cat, I read all there was to read on metal detecting, gold prospecting and treasure hunting. All I got was sore eyes. I spent many years researching learning systems translating various language's and all I had to show for it was trash! Bullets, Wire, Nails, Cans, Scrap!

It wasn't until I happened upon an old timer and his partner before I saw how it was done. At least the dry washing part of it. That got me going now I found gold nuggets with my Gold Bug because I can see where and how the gold runs in clay or washes!

I would suggest getting close with an old timer and have him show you how to get the Gold.

Treasure, that's a different story. Hit the Arizona state museum and stay there for months. Go to the University Library and live there for a while.
Read all the Treasure symbol and signs books you can afford. Study each and every one of them try to memorize as much as possible.

The only way to solve any Treasure stories which in my case is lost gold mines is to get out and hopefully stumble onto a Treasure / gold mine site like I did. That requires a level head, strong back, muscles of steel, a hard head, never ever giving up and never trusting anyone else's opinion or their honesty!

I don't know how many times I asked for some help and ended up with bogus information!


Trust in yourself and your own abilities.

Be Safe and good luck.

Hey thanks! Ever try using a metal detector for detecting gold? Yeah, I believe you when you said you found junk most of the time with metal detecting. Could I ask what kind/type of places you were searching in? If you want to know the best place/location to metal detect (in my opinion) it is in Waikiki beach in Hawaii (Oahu island). I lived there for a few years before. I knew of a couple people that would comb that beach everyday (for at least 6 hours a day on average). Hundreds of tourists/beach goers would be on that beach everyday (at least in the busy season) and it is a relatively small beach area with a high concentration of people, in many respects. But they would get good finds in that area. The most common thing was gold rings and earnings, coins (sometimes watches, cell phones, sunglasses, etc). I believe everyday that would find at least one gold ring (or a few more on a good day). Could I ask if you ever found a good "Treasure"? If you are able to say, hehe

 

[JBSFFUN]

Please indulge my ignorance, tried to do a search in the forums here + googled. What is the SWA? South western Az? There is a Rogers spring up by Meade. I say up by because I'm in Tucson. Thanks

 

[cactusjumper]

Please indulge my ignorance, tried to do a search in the forums here + googled. What is the SWA? South western Az? There is a Rogers spring up by Meade. I say up by because I'm in Tucson. Thanks

JB,

As used here, I believe it designates "Superstition Wilderness Area".

Good luck,

Joe Ribaudo

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Catinthe hat: of course., but not necessarily the lost Dutchma.

 

[Lucky Gator]

I am new to both prospecting and treasure hunting, but, having been an Intel Analyst in the Marine Corps (Let the oxymoron jokes commence), I am not knew to using my brain housing group to solve problems and answer questions. I am also pretty sharp at seeing what is useful and what is not. One thing that always gets under my skin just a little is dismissing information because it doesn't come from a "valid source." Information is information, most of it can be useful, and, ime, most of the valid intel I ended up with started with a trail that began as information that came from what some would consider an "invaild source." Is there in fact a LDM? Maybe, perhaps even probably, we will know for sure when we find it. Until then we can use what we do know, and what information we are given to search. The way information becomes valid actionable intelligence is by gathering information, testing it's validity or probability, and comparing it to what we know and other information. My point is NEVER disregard something straight away because it isn't properly sourced. If you do that, you're a file clerk, not a hunter. That kid who says his cousin knew a guy who's grandpa said the mine was in such and so a place, just MIGHT be on to something. Peace and good hunting.

 

[Not Peralta]

cat, yes there are several between the so called massacre grounds and first water trailhead, the directions to these are on t-net, np

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Lucky Gater: I completely agree.

 

[Not Peralta]

cat, ah yes bankers, have some np

 

[Azquester]

Hey thanks! Ever try using a metal detector for detecting gold? Yeah, I believe you when you said you found junk most of the time with metal detecting. Could I ask what kind/type of places you were searching in? If you want to know the best place/location to metal detect (in my opinion) it is in Waikiki beach in Hawaii (Oahu island). I lived there for a few years before. I knew of a couple people that would comb that beach everyday (for at least 6 hours a day on average). Hundreds of tourists/beach goers would be on that beach everyday (at least in the busy season) and it is a relatively small beach area with a high concentration of people, in many respects. But they would get good finds in that area. The most common thing was gold rings and earnings, coins (sometimes watches, cell phones, sunglasses, etc). I believe everyday that would find at least one gold ring (or a few more on a good day). Could I ask if you ever found a good "Treasure"? If you are able to say, hehe

Cat, From the get go I wasn't interested in coins or artifacts only gold. Never had the pleasure of beach detecting not enough water in Arizona. After all these years of metal detecting I started actually finding coins and other artifacts which helped me date the sites at least. Found a few coins some small items. I always wanted gold though no jewelry. I use a Gold Bug 2 and a Mine Lab Detectors.

About land Treasures. Land Treasure retrieval is a logistical nightmare! It depends on who's land it's on. If you want to do it legally you must have lawyers ready take years in the process and hopefully when your done you may get some of it if your lucky.
That is if Spain or the Forest Service or the BLM or the State doesn't sue you! They might call it an "Archaeological Treasure" which in layman's language means you get Nada.

Have I found Treasure? Like so many on here that think they have so do I. Does that mean I'll ever see it touch it feel it? Maybe not.

You have two ways to deal with a Treasure the legal way and the illegal way. If anything were ever discovered I suppose that individual would not be talking about it on this forum unless there was no way out of it and they had to go public for fear of being claim jumped.

In simple terms what I believe accounts for a true Treasure find is good friends, the Hunt always the Hunt, Research revelations, Hiking, Camping, Fishing and finally making a discovery of something, anything, that no one else has ever seen or heard of!
A simple small gold nugget or picker even gets me excited. Join some local Gold clubs talk to the old guys and go search out your hearts desire. It cleanses the soul.

 

[Azquester]

I am new to both prospecting and treasure hunting, but, having been an Intel Analyst in the Marine Corps (Let the oxymoron jokes commence), I am not knew to using my brain housing group to solve problems and answer questions. I am also pretty sharp at seeing what is useful and what is not. One thing that always gets under my skin just a little is dismissing information because it doesn't come from a "valid source." Information is information, most of it can be useful, and, ime, most of the valid intel I ended up with started with a trail that began as information that came from what some would consider an "invaild source." Is there in fact a LDM? Maybe, perhaps even probably, we will know for sure when we find it. Until then we can use what we do know, and what information we are given to search. The way information becomes valid actionable intelligence is by gathering information, testing it's validity or probability, and comparing it to what we know and other information. My point is NEVER disregard something straight away because it isn't properly sourced. If you do that, you're a file clerk, not a hunter. That kid who says his cousin knew a guy who's grandpa said the mine was in such and so a place, just MIGHT be on to something. Peace and good hunting.

Lucky Gator,

You're right! I never meant to say discard the information of others. Believe me I wouldn't have got to the corner Treasure Mart with out the guidance from those that may not quite be with it! What I was saying is that you make your own judgment of the validity of the source of the information. That's what I meant by trust in your self not others. No one will lead you by the hand and take you to their treasure site or a possible treasure site if they really indeed think they have something special.

I've absorbed all information from all sources, but, all I'm saying is you make the choice whether or not you want to pursue it. I always do regardless. I don't know how many times I thought " That guy gave me the wrong info or he doesn't know crap!" but I went there anyway just to hear them out or give them benefit of the doubt. Look how many times I've showed shadow signs and symbols only because of my own research and conclusions in the field. Do people on here believe it?

Not really.

I was only trying to enlighten some that may not have known about that system of highway billboard shadow directional symbols. Do I have the research to back it up? Physical research is unobtainable as the Archives of the Indies are now shut down to all Treasure Hunters. The only other research I have is my own on site research and a few clues about four symbols, all Egyptian in nature, that were given to me by believe it or not by a Questionable source. The symbols are there everyday at different times of the day and spell out a slow moving dance of repeated pointers, heads, horses, birds, Free Mason symbols and so on. I only report the symbols you decide if I'm a questionable source as I have nothing more to give other than what I've discovered! No confirming documents or royal decrees from an obscure database in some distant land. Just photographs and secret free mason knowledge that is extremely hard to see or understand by anyone that hasn't walked my walk.

Bill

 

[deducer]

Lucky Gater: I completely agree.

Will Joe agree?

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

Deducer, nah !

 

[Azquester]

Will Joe agree?

Joe is the quintessential phenomenon of a brain's knowledge database beyond the normal human's capabilities or comprehension. His vast sea of endless valuable forensic technical and intrinsic, exoteric, bilateral direct contact reference information is unachievable for most of us normal biological meat sacks!

I'll bet he likes that!