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[Old Dog]

BB,
Thanks a lot, I realy do apreciate it.
I apologise if I made it sound as ridicule,
For the record
I hope you do find it.

Don Jose, Thanks.
I think I needed the correction my friend. LOL
Apologies extended your way also for having to do the job.

OD

 

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[the blindbowman]

who is to hold the wealth of kings . the greed of humans ....


i need no drugs of any kind and my future will have none ,,, fill my cup untill it runth over with coffie ...


i am 47 today and i enjoy life now with a clear and clean being ....


thou i have walked in the vallie of shadow , the skys have opened unto heaven and the future is clear and sweet in these days ..



i have little idea of what i would do with the treasure if i found it . the goverment will no dout take it and the reward of finding it will be far less then what the treasure is worth ...

i can only hope and pray it is enough to make many smile and give other hope in their time of need ....


in this world there are people with no food or place to live and no reward or mercy from heaven in sight ...


it is not the gold or wealth of kings that frees them ... it wisdom and faith in ones self ... only a guide of wisdom can frre them from their hell ...


to visit hell is one thing , to call it home is something totally diffrent ....


i can share a vast treasure of wisdom with all that come to the table of life ,yet my cup runth over and far more goes to waste then what i can give away ... .... what is the answer to the question when dose a cup runth over for infinity , the answer is in fact simple . when the cup is empty , it is not empty at all ,it is holding air ....

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI my friend OD:

I did not find anything wrong in your posts? It was an honest appraisal from you on his data and reasons, not a personal one. Please keep posting, I enjoy your comments.

Incidentally, we all know that you (we) wish him success even if some of us may violently disagree with his theories. The nature of a true seeker.

As I once mentioned, by published data, no-one has found it yet by using popularly available information, hush CJ, but then I have never gone public on Tayopa either, except for here and in History Hunters. There are expeditons being made up even now to search in the coming winter. At times I feel a bit guilty, but they will have had an adventure / trip to treasure for the rest of their lives, something that is irreplaceable.

Of the thousands that have haphazardly searched for the LDM, 99% were just running around like ants, not really seeing or understanding what is in front of them. I have encountered old rock walls and structures on remote ranch lands that the owners had never noticed. When out searching, they were looking for cattle or game, not structures, so never noticed them.

However the dedicated 1% are another thing entirely, but then most started with a preconceived plan and when things did not fall into place, most soon gave up or missed that important clue.

While we may or may not agree with BB, he may just stumble upon the key while using it for another theory without realizing it..

VIVA La Busca - hooray for the search, often better than the finding.

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[the blindbowman]

i wish you all luck , good by ...

 

[Old Dog]

Bowman,

Good hunting.

 

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

I also wish you "good hunting" for the LDM, Tayopa, Jesuit, Aztec, Templar Treasure.

Joe

 

[the blindbowman]

would that be totally nuts if it turned out to be all of these treasure in one location ... thats nuts man ...lol i dout that but a cool idea ...lol

 

[Real de Tayopa Tropical Tramp]

HI" I can guarantee that Tayopa is "not" in the Superstitions. As for the rest ??

Don Jose de La Mancha

 

[the blindbowman]

HI" I can guarantee that Tayopa is "not" in the Superstitions. As for the rest ??

Don Jose de La Mancha

untill the tayopa treaure is found and made public it can be anywhere i guess ...

dont get me wrong real de tayopa . i have only stated that the tayopa fits legend i am working on . it could be nothing more then odds ...


who is to say the tunnel and pit i found is anything other then and old dusty satute in a tunnel at this piont ..

and real de tayopa if what i found is related in any way to the tayopa by facts i would let you know before its made public ...i am not saying it is just they have many common facters between these two legends ..


good piont . what are they ! ...


both had a tunnel cross from a building or chruch . both had treasure troves hiden in the tunnel ....both had acounts of a massacre site . where the bodies weretaken back to the tunnel ...both had spainish and jesuit related facts ... both take place in the new spain area ...
both have indain up riseings in their legends... yet the tayopa refers to the tunnel and not the pit . and the LDM legend refers to both the pit and the tunnel as well as the house the cave .. why the map shows both the house in the cave and the tunnel and the pit and so dose the stones ,and the dirrection ...

both refer to a golden staute or gardain in the mouth of the tunnel


yet one calls the house in the cave a chruch and the other calls it a two room house ...



we know there are many mines in the supers that could be the related tayopa mines ...

yet another acount stands out to me binkys acount of the indain secert place on a long ridge ...

i find one thing out of place if the tayopa could be herd from Nacori at the west end of the mt range then how far is that from Tayopa 's bells ?

it also says apache blew up the entrance to the mine that is not true of what i found ...

 

[cactusjumper]

Bowman,

Are we back to Jesuit/Spanish treasure now? What happened to Aztec/Templar? Hard to keep up with your theories. Remember....historically, there is some evidence to bolster your Aztec story. It would be interesting to see you focus your powers on that scenario.

Joe

 

[the blindbowman]

could we 100 % say the templars did not hear of the tunnel or cave from the Aztecs . no .. in fact if the treasure is there most likely the templar would have gotten that location from the Aztec ...before the spainish did .... may in fact this could help explan the aztec reaction to the spainish . they have seen the templars as friends then came the spainish . i would have reacted much the same to spainish ...


we can make a sound judgement that the Aztec were the frist to know about the secret cave or tunnel ,these could be the same thing . yet were the Aztec frist to know about the cave .. i dont beleive so .. i think the cave has been there as long a recorded history . the ancient ones ..... there is no proff i know of that says the Aztec related the cave to anyone . yet the jesuit kino story stated they did ,. but i have not seen any prove that was true fact ...


we dont see any dirrect contack between the templar and the Aztec yet the time line is there if montezum 2 was from that trible area .. he could have showed the templars the location to hide the treasure thinking they would keep the treasure for them self . then the spainish changed the game plays . this would explan the same history of what happens to the spainish and the jesuits at the site ..

i guess the question we should be asking our selfs was the apache a aztecain tribe . i do beleive they were ...

if they were then the answer to the question is yes the aztec could very well have lead the templars to that tunnel ...if it is templar ...


we just dont have any proff at this time ...

 

[Old Dog]

Bowman,
I think I am misunderstanding you.
I am sure the Templars would never have cooperated with the Spanish.
I find it hard (given there were no Christian influences in the Native American cultures before the Spanish arrived) to believe that Templars were here before the Spanish.
Maybe while the Spanish were here, yes. That could maybe be proved.

As far as the Aztecs go I would be easier to convince as to a serious influx northward.
I have seen petroglyph's even in my part of the country (Western Colorado) that could be Aztec or pictures depicting them. I have seen similar glyphs in Wyoming and NE Utah.
On this you won't hear me say nay, only "Go get um!"

The templars though were at war to the death with Spain and even had at one time a fleet of ships that preyed on Spanish vessels. The skull and Crossed bones was at one time a Templar symbol.

I am somewhat familiar with Templar History
My Grandfather was a Templar and a Mason
I have all his books.

I am only stating what I know as fact, Not trying to offend.
If you are more aware of any different info .....PLEASE educate me.
I am an inquiring mind.

OD

 

[Old Dog]

Bowman,

My research takes on a piece of the unusual also.
One of my pet projects is Carre Shinob.

The Petroglyph's I speak of are documented as about 400 years or more old. They actually show what had to be either Aztec or Egyptian figures.
I used logic when I said Aztec, Egyptian was a non issue in NE Utah.

As far as Templars go they were persecuted pretty heavily long before the Spanish came to the new world and the largest part of any holdings were already in the prince's treasury. Templar involvement in the New World was pretty concurrent with any Spanish involvement.
This took place mostly at sea from what I understand.

If you are about to prove another side of the story more power to you.
"History changes as we know it with every turn of a shovel."

Good Hunting
OD

 

[the blindbowman]

i want to thank Djui5 , your reply to another post on this site may have help prove one of the theorys i have about the templars being related to the treasure and the tunnel site ..

Djui5 you replyed '

to this post "RELATED STORIES
"Ancient Massacre Discovered in New Mexico -- Was It Genocide?" (July 12, 2007)
"Researchers Divided Over Whether Anasazi Were Cannibals" (June 1, 2001)
Photo: Anasazi Cliff Palace
July 12, 2007—A clay bowl, a skull, and a protruding bone give grim witness to a brutal massacre in the Southwestern U.S. some 800 years ago.
The body was one of seven skeletons—including five adults, one child, and an infant—discovered in a remote New Mexico canyon in 2005.

All of the remains bear signs of "traumatic injuries," archaeologists say, including broken necks, crushed skulls, and cut marks on bones suggesting the blows of an ax.

Pottery and other clues found at the site indicate the victims were members of an obscure culture known as the Gallina, which occupied a small region of northwestern New Mexico around A.D. 1100 (see New Mexico map).

The culture suddenly vanished around 1275, as the last of its members either left the region or were "wiped out," archaeologists say.

The newfound skeletons could provide crucial clues to the people's mysterious disappearance, which some experts think could have been the result of prehistoric genocide.


.... look at the date and time lines ,this about the same time line as the treasure and tunnel , the events are of massacre sites . and may be giveing us a better under standing of what took place .. let me explan . maybe we were looking at it worng . maybe the inains are from this aztecain tribe that killed many people in massacres around their home lands ,,,...

if their people vanished at the same time . maybe the battle with the templars wipe them almost out completely ... leaveing only a few .. much a to the last man type massacre .. maybe this is why there is little to no record of the events that took place at that piont in time in this area ...what if this tribe isolated it self ..at the tunnel location ...

what if the apache had nothing to do with the site at that piont in time ..what if that 1275 date was more 1280 -1290 and the templars came earlyer to the area .. this could make the thoery complate , not only explaning what happen to the templar but also explaning why that tribe vanished at the same time .. if this tribe of indains that massacre at will ran head on into a group of templar knights trying to find a hideing place for their treasure .there would have been one hell of fight ..to the death !.

i can see it would have been one hell of battle ,maybe the massacres in this area were made by a small part of this tribe that was left over from the times of the 1275-1295 , they could have been hideing in the cave complexes at the tunnel site .much like when someone finds a hornets nest . you keep showing it to others ...

maybe the out side tribes at the time hoped someone could get them out of the treasure caves , or they knew why that tribe was there and helped leed white men to them .. to be massacred ,,,

my piont is we dont know for a fact that these massacres are done by the same people or tribe yet here is a tribe that was killed in a massacre and could have been killed by the indain tribes in the area of the tunnel... in around the same time fram ....

i guess we will have to wait to see but its interesting i guess ..

what if the Aztec had a kind of kings guard to watch & kill anyone that got close to their treasure cave and it was past down threw the years to montizum 1 and then to montezum 2 , that could explan how it was there in the time line of 1275 and as late as the late 1400's , we do know for fact the Aztec kill thousands to the sun gods ,and warshiped the heart , and we see the heart of the mountains playing a part in the legends here at the tunnel site ...

so when the apache said their treasure cave was in the heart of the mts .. they may have only repeted what they had been told ..

never the less interesting ...

 

[the blindbowman]

Bowman,

My research takes on a piece of the unusual also.
One of my pet projects is Carre Shinob.

The Petroglyph's I speak of are documented as about 400 years or more old. They actually show what had to be either Aztec or Egyptian figures.
I used logic when I said Aztec, Egyptian was a non issue in NE Utah.

As far as Templars go they were persecuted pretty heavily long before the Spanish came to the new world and the largest part of any holdings were already in the prince's treasury. Templar involvement in the New World was pretty concurrent with any Spanish involvement.
This took place mostly at sea from what I understand.

If you are about to prove another side of the story more power to you.
"History changes as we know it with every turn of a shovel."

Good Hunting
OD

i well say i beleive the Aztec did go as far as utahor more north then that even ... every time i see things like this i can only wonder what took place that there is little to no record of any where .. .how much history is lost for lack of recorded data ..


we try to lable everything so we can under stand int in some kind of order , yet it dose not mean the events took place in that order .. or at the locations we think they did ..



the 1200's ways a unwriten time of events . when the land was as vast as the laguages of the people that lived on the earth in those days .. .i beleive this true of the years of AD up to the 1800's even .. some events were recorded very poorly and we may never see them as they truely were or took place back then ...

 

[the blindbowman]

if you are waiting for a clear cut out right fact to drop in from the heavens i already did lol but clue dont come that easy ,,,,


most of the time that is .. these may be some wild theories but often theory can become fact . it dose not mean i will be right about everything or even most of the theories i have put on the table ...dont you under stand yet i only need find one theory that becomes fact .

out of so many can i find one that ledds me to the right path of history ...


i dont even beleive everything i write but i will not lemit my self to failar becuase i failed to look past what others left in my path or mis labled ....



ca shing !

 

[Old Dog]

I agree that the knowledge doesen't just "Drop out of the sky"
But I also think in cases like this it becomes imparative to document your findings to a letter.

The only other scenario I can see is a possible "plant" or a templar working or mascarading as a member of a Spanish crew or expadition that could have left marks or signs that would confuse other Spanish on a return trip. A 'ringer' so to speak. His marks would show another templar the trail to the plunder. Just a thought.


OD

 

[the blindbowman]

you are smarter then you look .......

what better templar then the commander him self . when others could not find the treasure , God has sent his best commoner to answer the quest....


we are gatherd here today to show are respect for theories that have given their lives in the hope of ending theis quest . thou thuosands of theories have given their lives we only need to find one . the one the become fact ....let the theories come and go till this quest can rest in peace ....shhhhhhh

 

[Old Dog]

Thanks my friend.
OD

 

[the blindbowman]

its funny you stated it that way .. IMHO the spainish were trying to find were the templars had taken the treasure , yet come after the templars if my theory is correct ,to the same area in much the same shiping routes ....we all know how greedy the spainish kings were thats a matter of record lol ....were the spainish treasure hunters as well and were only trying to get the Aztec to tell them were the templars had gone with the treasure .. maybe the Aztec tryed to use the spainish to defeet the massacreing tribe ...after seeing what it had done to the templar or even sent the spainish there knowing what would happen to them as well ...maybe they knew what would happen to both the templar and the spainish ...


one thing remains in the back of my mind .. if these theories are even partly true , this secert cave /tunnel has been around for hunderds of years and a lot longer then we beleived ..... my question ,would be what is more valueable then the treasure of christ or the spainish treasure or jesuit treasure .. and who are they more valuable to ....

someone went to a vast amount to hide and protect this location ..

i can only guess that it is in that location for that reason ...


this would say the ancient ones frist had this location or some tribe before them even ..


a wealth so vast that it could not be moved ,or something so rare or danerous no one dare touch or move it ....

faith is a rare thing when many beleive in their gods ......

it will be found, maybe it will be found by someone like me that was not even looking for it at the time ...