Response from the city

[willie d]

I recently e-mailed the city administrator of New Port Richey.My e-mail went like this: Hello, I was wondering what laws, if any, there are on metal detecting on city property. Thank You.

The response: In answer to this request, there are no specific laws on the use of metal detectors in the City. However, I am sure that the City would object to individuals digging up property especially in the parks and/or removing anything from the property. I am sure we would prohibit metal detectors on the City property as any property would.

Any thoughts?

 

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[SC_hunter]

That was a most intelligent response....Guess there isn't any law against it...but maybe we will make one up as we go along...lol Good luck and HH.

 

[soar697877]

I have been trying to get an answer from my Deputy park Director here as well...
over a week now, nothing. The secretary's,etc. that answer the phone there have told us
different views on the matter...so I know what ya feeling.

My response is , look pal, if it is just a public city park, (NOT a historical ground,etc) then
common sense rules. A detectorist should have just as much right as anyone else to enjoy the park in their own hobby. Don't they know that Golf, soccer, football, etc also can tear
up park ground? I don't see them saying anything about that...

As long as your not digging trenches, and you are careful with the plugs you pull, really, what is the harm!!!

I got tired of waiting for a legitimate answer, and hunted my 1st park today here. Did't find much, 8 cents I believe, and it was all found in the "woodchipped" area of the playgrounds, etc...not dirt. So I would love to see them try and ticket/arrest me, etc...I would fight them, and win !!!

 

[G.I.B.]

An ‘Opinion’ is not a law. Nothing says so you can’t, so go forth and detect. Fill your holes and leave no sign of your presence.

Keep the email from the city official with you when you hunt. If you have any problems with the officers, show them the email.

In over 25 years of working as a Deputy Sheriff I never, nor did anyone I ever know of, care less when we saw someone with a metal detector wandering the parks. The only thing I ever saw old guys with detectors were as possible witness’s to other crimes. They also provide some sense of security to Mom’s and little kids playing around the park.

Most cops have better things to do.

You made the effort to make sure your not in violation. Have a great hunt.

 

[willie d]

The parks already have signs clearly posted METAL DETECTORS PROHIBITED IN THE PARK. I was more interested in some properties that were recently purchased and the buildings torn down.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

That is very rare, for a park to actually be posted "no metal detecting". I have only seen one sign like that, in any city, in my 30 yrs of this. That was in Nevada. I can understand historic parks (Shiloh, Ghettysburg, Bodie, etc..) but to have that on a regular city park, is very rare indeed. Something must've happened a long time ago in that city, like a moron who was leaving open pits, and wouldn't take a warning. So they assume all md'rs do this, and make a sign.

But to get to your original question, I would never have asked that question to begin with. Why would you ask to hunt un-posted city property (barring obvious historical monument, or fenced sites or something)? If someone has an issue, they're welcome to tell you. Odds are, no one notices or cares, if you are discreet. Now, by asking them (and getting an answer like that, that implies you are ONE INCH away from a law), it seems that whoever wrote that would be on the lookout now, for such activity, whereas, they'd probably have not given it thought, before. As the saying goes, "sometimes no one cares .... UNTIL you ask"

 

[Ant]

I don't ask either. I always hunt discretely, you know, out of site, out of mind.

 

[diggummup]

Very early Sunday morning just as the sun is rising is the most discreet time.

 

[hollowpointred]

Very early Sunday morning just as the sun is rising is the most discreet time.

thats when i like to go. nice and quite and peacefull.

 

[soar697877]

Apparently this effects the ENTIRE STATE of TN FOLKS !!!

According to the email's finally received today from the Deputy Director of Parks here in Clarksville, TN he says all Metal Detectorists operating on anyones property but their own, are automatically criminals= Vandals, and will be charged.

Ok, here is latest response from my city deputy park director:


From: Steve
Date: 2007/08/01 Wed PM 12:39:35 EST
To: "Cowling, Kevin" <[email protected]>
Subject: RE: RE: Question about a hobby



OK, first, my name is Mr. CODERRE, not Corderre.

Second, now you are deliberately being prejudiced against Metal Detectorists.

You are saying that it is ok for other Hobby users to dig and cause "vandalism"
in city parks because you "KNOW and expect" it, and agree to it for them, just not for metal detectorists, even in the TOT Lots, -sand/pebble/wood/Bark areas?

You quoted an apparent state of TN law, but you are now choosing when to
enforce it...for the benefit of your wishes alone. The idea of that apparent state of TN law you quoted was never intended for the hobbyists in mind, as the football, baseball, football, Hobby Metal Detectorists, soccer players.

By the way, for your info...the properties in question are indeed PUBLIC
properties, not your personal land, and you cannot legally bend for some and not others if you are going to bend the laws you are quoting period. Have you ever actually read the Clarksville Muni-code?

Here is an excerpt:

Sec. 10-236. Tampering with public property. - does not apply to MD'ing

or this one:

Sec. 12-503. Same--Function.

The recreation committee shall provide, conduct, and supervise public
playgrounds, athletic fields, recreation centers, and any other recreational
facilities and activities on properties that the city may own or private
property owners may provide or make available for such uses. The committee may conduct any form of recreation or cultural activity that it deems advisable to
employ the leisure time of the people in a constructive and wholesome manner.
(Code 1963, § 20-3)



I believe my new Hobby is constructive and wholesome in manner, just as anyone else's.




Maybe I should not have chosen Clarksville, TN to retire in, I thought
Clarksville had some common sense, guess I was mistaken.



Steven CODERRE

Clarksville, TN


>
> From: "Cowling, Kevin" <[email protected]>
> Date: 2007/08/01 Wed AM 11:53:59 EST
> To: "Steve" <[email protected]>
> CC: "Elliott, Charles" <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: RE: Question about a hobby
>
> Mr. Corderre,
>
> The children are not guilty of vandalism, as stated in the law it is
> says "without the owner's consent" it is known the playground will have
> this type of activity in the ground cover.
>
> The athletics are under the same premise, the city knows these teams
> will be using the facilities and any damage is the result of play, not a
> specific activity.
>
> Thank you,
>
> Kevin Cowling, CPRP
> Deputy Director
> Clarksville Parks and Recreation
> 102 Public Square
> Clarksville, TN 37040
> Office - 931-645-7476
> Fax - 931-553-2432
> Cell - 931-320-1599

From: Steve
Date: 2007/08/01 Wed AM 11:14:26 EST
To: "Cowling, Kevin" <[email protected]>
Subject: Re: RE: Question about a hobby



Sir,

OK, so I assume that the playground areas/TOT lots are ok then, as they are either sand, or wooden bark, NOT sod, correct? Or are the children guilty of the law as well when they dig/play in them?

Also, does the park dept enforce this same rule against the various sports , i.
e. soccer, football, baseball ? Those and other activities also would pertain to that wording of the state law you are quoting. Thanks.

Mr. CODERRE

>
> From: "Cowling, Kevin" <[email protected]>
> Date: 2007/08/01 Wed AM 10:57:12 EST
> To: "Steve" <[email protected]>
> CC: "Elliott, Charles" <[email protected]>
> Subject: RE: Question about a hobby
>
> Mr. Corderre,
>
>
>
> I do appreciate you taking the time to email us in regards to your
> question about metal detecting in our parks. In regards to metal
> detecting rules that aren't posted on our website and the City Municode,
> the law actually comes from the State of Tennessee Annotated, it reads;
>
>
>
> Vandalism 39-14-408:
>
> "Any person who knowingly causes damage to or the destruction of
> personal property of another or of the State, the United States, any
> county, city or town knowing that the person does not have the owner's
> effective consent is guilty of an offense under this section."
>
>
>
> I do not doubt that you hold the highest standards in regard to your
> hobby, but we have had problems in the past of people digging and not
> repairing their holes throughout our parks. The result being the
> department not allowing this to continue. I again would like to thank
> you for taking the time to contact us and apologize for the delay in
> returning your email.
>
>
>
> Sincerely,
>
>
>
> Kevin Cowling, CPRP
>
> Deputy Director
>
> Clarksville Parks and Recreation
>
> 102 Public Square
>
> Clarksville, TN 37040
>
> Office - 931-645-7476
>
> Fax - 931-553-2432
>
> Cell - 931-320-1599
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Steve [mailto:[email protected]]
> Sent: Monday, July 16, 2007 5:37 PM
> To: Cowling, Kevin
> Subject: Question about a hobby
>
>
>
> Good Afternoon Sir,
>
>
>
> I understand from your secretary that I would have to ask you whether or
> not a hobby I am interested in pursuing is
>
> currently against any city of Clarksville Muni-code, or similar written
> law/regulation, being you are the Deputy Director.
>
>
>
> I am a hobby detectorist, and homeowner here in Clarksville, TN. I
> recently retired from the US Army and have decided to make this my home.
I have reviewed your parks website, and also the muni-code of Clarksville.

I have found only one park that specifically prohibits using a metal
detector in the public park, that is the FT Defiance park.
I definitely understand the reasoning behind that particular park,
due to the vast historic value of it, and of course the fallen soldiers.

> No other park rules listed for any other park prohibit metal detector
> use, per your posted web site's for each park.
>
> Also, I find nothing in the city muni-code that would prohibit use on
> public city park land.
>
>
>
> Understand that we are not talking about shovels & backhoes here..just
> simple hobby detecting with a screwdriver size probe, etc.
The hobby is actually very misunderstood by most, and I hope that by
> being a positive ambassador for the hobby detectorist in general , I
> could show what a great hobby this is. Have you ever lost anything
of sentimental value in a park? People like me have found those
sentimental things people have lost, and returned them when possible
going to extremes to find the owners initials in rings, etc.
>
>
>
> It is all about a code of ethics. I myself, have a strong code of ethics
> & morals. I currently possess a Gov't Secret clearance, my fingerprints
are on file with the local CPD (Just renewed my clearance
-FBI fingerprint card), I have no record at all.
>
> So I can assure you that I would respect any park at all times if I were
> to detect in one.
>
>
>
> If the Park Dept or the local CPD ever need a reliable, experienced
> metal detectorist for any criminal issue, i.e. find robbery loot,
dropped weapons, etc. I would help if asked.

> Currently there is no North TN Metal Detectorist
> Clubs that I am aware of, only the Middle TN club out of Nashville, TN.
> I might even one day wish to start a local north TN Club, and of course,
I would demand the same code of ethics of its members.
>
>
>
> Thank you for your time.
>
>
>
>
> Steven G. Coderre
> Clarksville, TN
> (931) 378-2875

 

[Tom_in_CA]

soar697877: You are "cruising for a bruising". Seems to me that the only thing you're going to do with this, is draw more unwelcome attention to yourself and our hobby, where you probably would not have been bothered, if you'd simply have gone and been discreet (barring obvious historical monuments, etc...).

True story example: There was a fellow in a midwestern state (I forget which one), who used to routinely detect a particular state park. He had never been bothered. One day, he got booted. I forget the particulars. Perhaps it was a ranger having a bad day, or maybe it was just an overzealous ranger misinterpretting something he thought applied, etc... Well, instead of just avoiding just that one park, or just that one ranger, the detectorist started researching the rules, and going further and further up the ladder of chain of command. During this time, he heard that a neighboring state actually had wording that allowed md'ing, but only on beaches, or non-historic areas, or whatever. Since his state had no wording either way (it was silent on the issue), he decided "gee, this would be great if our state could implement some wording like this for our park's system". So he proceeded to petition the highest he could go, with letters, calls, etc...

Months went by, and he got no responses. One day, he was detecting at another state park, no connection to the one he'd been booted at a few months earlier. This was also one that he and his friends had never had a problem with. Well guess what? He got booted from this one too! When he asked the ranger "why?", the ranger pulls out a department memo, that had just come down from headquarters, advising all the park rangers to be on the lookout for metal detectorists, and to forbid them from detecting! And guess who it was signed by?? The very same person whom this md'r had been petitioning!! He also started to hear that other md'rs in other parts of his state were also now getting booted!

The guy, in retrospect, said he wished he'd just left good enough alone, and treated his initial incident as an isolated incident, instead of bringing attention to himself and the hobby.

 

[soar697877]

Well Tom,

Youre entitled to your opinion, and I thank you for it. I also am entitled to my opinion,
which is the predominate opinion of 95% of medal detectorists out there I am sure.

I believe in looking up the rules & laws of any place I would like to detect in, as I do not like surprises such as tickets,MD confiscatiom,embarrasment, etc. Maybe if folks like you
were not so "sneaky" about your MD activities, (Do you have something to hide? Are you
not following the code of ethics?) and were more open about your hobby, just the opposite
would happen, i.e. more and more good examples of our hobby would come out, instead of the current mentality that is out there now.

Think of it like this Tom, if you have your credit card in hand, and ya go shopping, and you know your credit line is x amount, then you know what your budget is for x product,correct?
Kinda the same philosophy, and it works.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

soar697877, can you tell me any incidents of "confiscations" "jail", etc...? Barring of course someone nightsneaking a historic monument or someone who couldn't take a warning?.

It is not "sneaky" to detect in a park. I lost ya there. I don't sneak at all, when I arrive at a new town, and see a nice old park I just go. I think of myself as no different than any other park usage. Ie.: you wouldn't "ask" to fly a kite, or throw a frisbee, etc.... Likewise, I don't think of my hobby as somehow illegal.

If there were no laws forbidding it (ie.: the law is silent on the issue), I would not ask further. That merely allows someone to say "no", when in fact, you would probably have been ignored, if you had just gone.

 

[jeff of pa]

Ie.: you wouldn't "ask" to fly a kite, or throw a frisbee, etc.... Likewise, I don't think of my hobby as somehow illegal.

Excellent point.

I could come up with several Howevers,

but, This is the First Time I'v seen this point made
in such a Obviously Correct Way.

Even though we're taught the right thing to do is ask,
in Public parks,
It gives people the option to think & say no.
or Start a process to stop you.

Damned if you do, Damned if you don't.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

thanx for seeing my point Jeff. The minute we "ask", it only implies that something is somehow wrong with us or our hobby, that we had to ask, to begin with.

 

[soar697877]

Tom,

I totally agree with you your statement :

"I think of myself as no different than any other park usage. Ie.: you wouldn't "ask" to fly a kite, or throw a frisbee, etc.... Likewise, I don't think of my hobby as somehow illegal."

It is a common sense statement....or so I thought too. BUT,,you knew there would be a "but" right?...the problem is I have been threatened with a criminal charge of "vandalism"
merely for operating my metal detector in my local public non-historical city parks, even in the "TOT" areas of sand/pebbles/ or woodchips !

And being a Gov't clearance holder...I have a definite personal stake in that I do not need
ANY criminal charge brought up on me, or I could face loss of my Gov't clearance, so
ya see,,, I dont have alot of choice but to be "safe" first, instead of just do it, and fight later,when charged,etc....

Does it suck, yes it does. Is it fair? No it is not.

 

[soar697877]

TVA is the nation’s largest public power company, with 33,000 megawatts of dependable generating capacity. Through 158 locally owned distributors, TVA provides power to about 8.7 million residents of the Tennessee Valley.

http://www.tva.com/abouttva/index.htm



These TVA lands are in TN; However, these are different lands that are no where near my location here in the city limits of Clarksviile, TN.

 

[soar697877]

mrs.oroblanco ,

What are you sorry about? No need to be sorry ! You asked a simple question, what is wrong with that? We are all friendly folks on TNET, well most of us anyways.

 

[teverly]

So again are we going to say just because there no sign we detect and dont ask?? this is the same thing as not asking permission...
Just because no one says i cant i will do it and worry about the consequences later??
Ignorance of the law will not be an accepted excuse if anyone ever gets in trouble for it..
And im tired of hearin people say well i dont see anybody getting equipment confiscated or cited ect..that is part of the reason you should make sure its legal...because if it becomes a problem they will start cracking down on all of us....so instead of creating a future headache find out the law.......
If you cant get a clear answer then i guess it is up to your own feelings as to what to do...

 

[soar697877]

I agree Teverly,

Its folks with attitudes like Tom's we apparently need to try and
change, as he keeps telling all the new TNET members just do it,,its ok, blah blah blah....when in fact, he is in California, where it is easier to detect legally, well at least it seems easier as he appears to detect wherever he wants there?