🥇 BANNER REVOLUTIONARY WAR 9TH REGIMENT CARTRIDGE BOX PLATE!!!

[paleomaxx]

Yup, just sitting pretty wedged between some rocks in an old foundation:



Didn't even need the shovel, I just pulled two of the huge slate slabs apart and it fell out of the crack. Based on the signal I was expecting some iron sheet, and when I first picked it up I thought it was instead brass flashing, but then the light hit the engravings and I saw the 1775!



I don't have all the details on this yet as information seems to be tough to come by on these pieces and odds are this was custom made. The top says Captain and I presume the "ID" underneath are initials. 1775 may be the date of enlistment/commissioning and the Latin motto is partial but what's there reads "Vel Mors Vel Glo-" Vel Mors Vel Gloria was my first guess as to the whole motto which (while not proper Latin) could be translated to "death or glory." The wreath clearly shows "9th Reg" for 9th Regiment. Based on the motto and where this was recovered (Massachusetts) I'm leaning towards this being an American as opposed to British plate. I'm open to discussion though...



This is without a doubt a find of a lifetime for me! I've been hoping to find even a Rev War era military button this year, and I skipped right over that and then kept on skipping far past what my wildest expectations. Not just that, but being kept out of the dirt all these years it's in nearly immaculate condition and all of those detailed engravings are still as sharp as the day the were cut 245 years ago!

It seems almost silly to mention, but there were a handful of other associated finds around the foundation.



I'm positive I wasn't the first to detect this homestead as there were iron bits on rocks and around trees. Very few signals in the ground, but the tombacs and coppers at least confirm that this homesite was likely late 18th century and thus the plate was probably lost by the original owner or a close relative. The 1815 halfpenny token was a first for me and the 1857 flying eagle is in decent shape. The site being 18th century also means the missing piece may be around somewhere, but I didn't have any luck finding it today.

I'd be very interested to hear what people think on the plate, and if anyone can dig up roster information from the 9th regiment. There couldn't have been that many captains and if the initials really are "ID" it would be amazing to attribute this to a specific individual. There don't seem to be many examples of box plates from this time period out there so I'm not even sure if this is a typical layout and if having the motto in there is an unusual addition or a common practice.

Obviously time for more research, but talk about holding a piece of history in your hands...

UPDATE, CONCLUSIVELY ATTRIBUTED!!!

Well this took some serious research and some significant guidance in the right direction from some members of the facebook group suggested by Steve in PA, but I got it! The first break came from a small excerpt in the Twentieth Report of the National Society of the Daughters of the American Revolution (1916-1917). That had a little blurb:

Bowen, Jabesh. He was a corporal in Capt. Jonathan Danforth’s company, Col. Daniel Brewer’s Ninth regiment.

Captain Jonathan Danforth would match the initials and was in a 9th regiment so I dug a little deeper. The big break was in the book A History of the Town of Pittsfield in Berkshire County Mass (1844). That had an extensive biography of Colonel Joshua Danforth who had an incredible career during the revolutionary war starting as a clerk and was eventually made a colonel, but most importantly it mentioned that he served with his father's company starting in 1775:

Col. Joshua Danforth, to use the language of the Rev. Dr. Brinsmade, in the sermon preached at his funeral, “was born in Western, [now Warren,] Massachusetts, November 26th, 1759. He was the son of Jonathan Danforth, an officer in the Revolutionary War, who acted a conspicuous part as commander of a battalion in the Battle of Bennington. It was the intention of his father, in early life, to give this son a liberal education and he was qualifying himself to enter College when the Revolutionary struggle commenced. It was then, when the note of war was sounded and the veteran troops of England were pouring in upon our territories, that, at the age of fifteen years, he entered the army in the capacity of clerk in his father’s company. After having served several months in this office, at the same time discharging the duties of Surgeon’s mate, he received, at the age of sixteen, an Ensign’s commission. From this post he was promoted, and in 1778 raised to the rank of first Lieutenant, in which office he continued until 1781, when he was appointed Paymaster, with the rank of Captain.

His first active services were performed at Roxbury, in June, 1775, at the time the British were throwing bombs into that place. When General Washington had ordered the army to remove from that place, and the last regiment had left the encampment, it was ascertained that a part of the baggage had been left behind, and a detachment of men, under the command of Mr. Danforth, was ordered to go and secure it, which was done at great hazard. He remained in that vicinity until March 17, 1776, when, with the main body of the American army under Washington, he marched into Boston, as the rear of the British army left that town. He was in Boston until the following summer, and there in July heard for the first time the Declaration of Independence read to the army, which was called out for that purpose. Soon after this he went to Ticonderoga, and was at the surrender of Burgoyne in 1777. Immediately after this event, the Brigade to which he belonged was ordered to New Jersey, and thence to White Marsh; and on the 19th of December the army took up their winter quarters at Valley Forge, about twenty miles from Philadelphia, which was then in the possession of the British. It was on this march, the historian tell us that “through want of shoes and stockings, over the hard frozen ground, the army might be tracked from White Marsh to Valley Forge, by the blood from their feet.” Colonel Danforth has been heard to say that the suffering of the army from want of food and shelter that winter were incredible.

In 1778 he was in the battle of Monmouth, and the August of the following he went to Rhode Island. He spent the principle part of the year 1780 at West Point and its vicinity. In 1781 he had command, for some months, of a post a few miles from the Hudson near Tappan’s Bay, and was engaged in several skirmishes with the enemy. The army was disbanded in 1783, but Colonel Danforth was continued in the service as Paymaster, to assist in the settlement of the accounts with the soldiers, and was not discharged until the year following.

Pretty amazing, and the mentions of his father's service gave me enough to go on that I finally found a short biography of Jonathan Danforth:

Jonathan Danforth (1736-1802) was a minute man at Bunker Hill and with him were his two sons, Joshua and Jonathan, Jr. He commanded a battalion at the battle of Bennington.

And there you have it! This piece belonged to Captain Jonathan Danforth who was not only at the Battle of Bunker Hill, but had a significant role in the Battle of Bennington and this may very well have been with him at both! Talk about a one-of-a-kind piece of history folks!!!

 

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[Iron Patch]

Congratulations. At first brush you wonder how can MD be the same after finding the find of a lifetime; but then you realize if you could make this find, then ANYTHING is possible, and you’re more stoked than ever to get out there at every opportunity. Did you pinch yourself to see if you were dreaming??

I can tell you one thing, the great days and finds make the bad days a little more tolerable. It also makes you less likely to give up because you know what a game changer any hole can bring.

 

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[paleomaxx]

Congratulations. At first brush you wonder how can MD be the same after finding the find of a lifetime; but then you realize if you could make this find, then ANYTHING is possible, and you’re more stoked than ever to get out there at every opportunity. Did you pinch yourself to see if you were dreaming??

Precisely, absolutely anything is possible. I've learned not to take any signal for granted and not to write of spots that may have been picked over before. There's still some amazing history lurking under the surface!

 

[Silver Tree Chaser]

This is one of the best Rev War finds that I can recall ever being posted on T-Net. Epic recovery! Banner vote submitted.

 

[paleomaxx]

This is one of the best Rev War finds that I can recall ever being posted on T-Net. Epic recovery! Banner vote submitted.

Thank you so much for your vote, I'm still on cloud nine 3 days later! The more I read about the Danforth family and the battles they participated in, the more I am in awe of this relic. I'm definitely going to be reaching out to the Berkshire county historical society. Joshua Danforth was important enough to the city of Pittsfield that I suspect a lot of his personal papers have been preserved and I'm hoping I can find some accounts of his father in there. Also if I can find a portrait of him that would be fantastic too!

 

[Iron Patch]

Thank you so much for your vote, I'm still on cloud nine 3 days later! The more I read about the Danforth family and the battles they participated in, the more I am in awe of this relic. I'm definitely going to be reaching out to the Berkshire county historical society. Joshua Danforth was important enough to the city of Pittsfield that I suspect a lot of his personal papers have been preserved and I'm hoping I can find some accounts of his father in there. Also if I can find a portrait of him that would be fantastic too!

This find should be like voting in a dictatorship! (is there really any question)

 

[Underwonder]

Paleomaxx, Super finds, great research, and exciting story...That’s what I love about this hobby. Thanks for sharing your epic find! I was looking for the Captain’s grave on “find a grave” but couldn’t find it....but there are many Jonathan
Danforths! I look forward to reading more...and, oh yes, BANNER recommended! Enjoy the cloud ride!

 

[Calabash Digger]

WOW! BANNER!

 

[antmike915]

sweet

 

[sandchip]

One question. Why is this thing not on top by now?

Not just the artifact, but the story that goes with it should make it worthy of banner. How our troops were without shoes and socks in the dead of winter, being tracked by the enemy by their bloody footprints in the snow is gutwrenching. I thought of that at our city council meeting Thursday evening as we stood and said the Pledge of Allegiance to our flag and almost couldn't finish saying it, looking at the flag and knowing how men suffered and gave their lives for the freedom of a nation of so many very spoiled and ungrateful people. If only this part of our history were taught in our schools, to respect the sacrifice of those who truly earned it, instead of spending their school day being forced to be tolerant of a bunch of whiny ass individuals who wouldn't pee on your head if your hair was on fire, much less lay down their lives for their fellow man.

 

[Iron Patch]

Rev War plates matter.

 

[Castineman1779]

Max
There is no doubt u indeed have found a one in a lifetime relic from our American Revolution . It will easily make Banner. Now I have commented on your find 4 times and read every one of the good folks comments. the only question so far yet unanswered is what is it? Because it looks like a duck, quacks like an duck does not make it a duck. If it is a cartridge box plate or a trunk plate will not diminish the pure history of a fantastic one of a kind find. It has been viewed over 1200 times with now 5 pages of comments. However is it not important when it does make Banner it is ided correctly to what it is? I usually only follow "Today's Finds" and maybe others have given u an opinion on others. U wrote once it was thin brass with one attachment hook remaining and one important piece of information had one square nail hole in it. That along tells me was tacked onto to something. It was removed from something and probably broke then . I am still hanging my hat , an opinion, on an trunk plate for the reasons mentioned, in my last messages . It went to war with this American officer and returned to his homestead as many trunks would. A rare survivor you brought back to life. It indeed is a "cloud nine" find and a museum piece and just pure history . I know u will enjoy for years and thanks for sharing it with us. We who hunt and find relics from the American Revolution" know the feeling of holding great history in one's hand. So it is with any great find being our history. I have given an opinion and hope again others may as well. Max hard to top this find but the beauty of swinging a coil is what can be found as u all know. Gary

 

[paleomaxx]

Max
There is no doubt u indeed have found a one in a lifetime relic from our American Revolution . It will easily make Banner. Now I have commented on your find 4 times and read every one of the good folks comments. the only question so far yet unanswered is what is it? Because it looks like a duck, quacks like an duck does not make it a duck. If it is a cartridge box plate or a trunk plate will not diminish the pure history of a fantastic one of a kind find. It has been viewed over 1200 times with now 5 pages of comments. However is it not important when it does make Banner it is ided correctly to what it is? I usually only follow "Today's Finds" and maybe others have given u an opinion on others. U wrote once it was thin brass with one attachment hook remaining and one important piece of information had one square nail hole in it. That along tells me was tacked onto to something. It was removed from something and probably broke then . I am still hanging my hat , an opinion, on an trunk plate for the reasons mentioned, in my last messages . It went to war with this American officer and returned to his homestead as many trunks would. A rare survivor you brought back to life. It indeed is a "cloud nine" find and a museum piece and just pure history . I know u will enjoy for years and thanks for sharing it with us. We who hunt and find relics from the American Revolution" know the feeling of holding great history in one's hand. So it is with any great find being our history. I have given an opinion and hope again others may as well. Max hard to top this find but the beauty of swinging a coil is what can be found as u all know. Gary

What it originally was does seem to be the question! The members on the facebook group "Revolutionary War Buttons, Plates, and Accouterments" are saying that the size (2.5"x5") is too large to be a cartridge box plate. The debate seems to be between it being a trunk nameplate and a hat plate. The argument against the trunk plate theory from that group mostly boils down to "why would he bother to have a Latin motto inscribed on the plate if it was just for luggage?" The hat frontispiece theory seemed farfetched to me at first, but Don actually dug up a reference to one that sounds extraordinarily close:

From the Revolutionary War file Pension of Hezekiah Munsell, Hartford Courant Supplement June 8 1844. "Piece of Antiquity": H. Munsell wore a hat to the field of conflict in 1775, with this motto on his brass frontispiece---"Liberty, Property, and all America".

I doubt it was common practice to have a brass plate like this on their hat, but for the officer's with enough money and patriotic sentiment to have one made, maybe that was seen as a bold way of expressing it.

 

[Castineman1779]

Max I am in agreement with that group it not being a box plate for the reasons mentioned in my previous posts. However he was a captain in the 9th and no doubt it was not just regular luggage but probably a smaller trunk with persona
L items as well. Putting his name on it told others not to steal it and if he was killed in action I suspect that trunk would find it's way back to his kin. On the hat plate I would give my opinion no because most officer's. Wore tri corns or bi corns and no place to attach a plate that large. I am still thinking trunk plate to I'd the owner. After the war it returned home with him. From there may have been taken off the trunk by him or a member of his family as a keepesake . Why it got broke is another question. However if on a trunk with that square nail hole tells me most likely on wood. The trunk could have had a leather covering where the two thin hooks were put on the leather and a nail to secure it. Just my thoughts for others to consider. Hope others continue with their opinions. Gary

 

[IMAUDIGGER]

Jeeze, I’ve seen some really neat stuff found here...really amazing stuff...and never voted banner once...

Not for gold coins or George Washington political buttons....not to belittle those, but..

Your find is really something special that needs to hang around a bit longer than the typical outstanding treasure people are finding every once in awhile. It has historical significance which ranks way above monetary value or rarity in my book.

Banner vote in from me.

 

[ANTIQUARIAN]

Max
There is no doubt u indeed have found a one in a lifetime relic from our American Revolution . It will easily make Banner. Now I have commented on your find 4 times and read every one of the good folks comments. the only question so far yet unanswered is what is it? Because it looks like a duck, quacks like an duck does not make it a duck. If it is a cartridge box plate or a trunk plate will not diminish the pure history of a fantastic one of a kind find. It has been viewed over 1200 times with now 5 pages of comments. However is it not important when it does make Banner it is ided correctly to what it is? I usually only follow "Today's Finds" and maybe others have given u an opinion on others. U wrote once it was thin brass with one attachment hook remaining and one important piece of information had one square nail hole in it. That along tells me was tacked onto to something. It was removed from something and probably broke then . I am still hanging my hat , an opinion, on an trunk plate for the reasons mentioned, in my last messages . It went to war with this American officer and returned to his homestead as many trunks would. A rare survivor you brought back to life. It indeed is a "cloud nine" find and a museum piece and just pure history . I know u will enjoy for years and thanks for sharing it with us. We who hunt and find relics from the American Revolution" know the feeling of holding great history in one's hand. So it is with any great find being our history. I have given an opinion and hope again others may as well. Max hard to top this find but the beauty of swinging a coil is what can be found as u all know. Gary

Well said Gary!

The reality here is, this piece will likely be debated for years as to what it was originally attached to and the purpose it was made for. What we can say for certain is that it gives us a brief glimpse of history during the Revolutionary War in America prior to Confederation. This is why most of us took up this hobby...to save the history in the ground (or in this case the foundation wall) that the archeologists will never get to save!

This is a unique piece of US history, in my opinion it's an important find and deserves to be recognized as such with a BANNER award at the top of this page!
Dave

 

[Castineman1779]

Well said to u my friend as well. To me the American Revolution is where this country began it's history for Liberty and Freedom. Finds like this I call a "Quality Moment" I have been fortunate to experience many times in my 23 years and beginning 24 th hunting my site. A history that comes to light after "Mother Earth" has cradled and most times protected it and we get to see get and touch pure history. It is when the detector gets turned off, u hold history in your hands and just enjoy your find. We get to share with others true history of our ancestors fight for a freedom , their sacrifices and admire what they did to give us what we have. "Freedom isn't Free" and least we not forget that. Last year I came back on Tnet , after 5 years absent, to share a gold guniea that came under my coil at this site and other relics & coins found last year. Wish had done years earlier. This to me is what the hobby truly is finding history and sharing and Max and all of u that have done that here on Tnet thank u so much. Let's keep this thread going so others will see it. Thanks Gary

 

[sandchip]

..."Freedom isn't Free" and least we not forget that...

Unfortunately, many Americans have indeed forgotten, or were never taught it in the first place. I won't start something that might upset some members or violate forum rules, but in addition to the historical aspect, this nation as also strayed from another place as well, perhaps more important than our history itself, yet both inextricably intertwined. The sad thing is that, at some point, if the current trend continues, everyone, even those of us who are cognizant of the true cause of our country's problems, will all pay dearly.

I apologize if I have digressed too far from the subject at hand, so enough said. Now, let's get this beautiful piece of American history up top where it belongs!

 

[dansalata]

holy cow...congratulations to you...amazing

 

[Gridwalker306]

That is quite the piece of history, congrats on a truly remarkable find! Banner!

 

[Castineman1779]

Yup it's time to put this great piece of history on the Banner please. Some times I think the Revolutionary War takes a back seat to shiny objects. . Maybe just me. Will keep this post alive until it gets the respect it deserves I suppose just the old soldier in me and throw in a little patriotism . Gary