Saturday Started With A Bang

[GrizLeeBear]

I am spending the winter in South Texas hiking and metal detecting. I sit around camp fires and listen to the good folks who have lived out here for most of their lives. I ask and get permission to hunt a number of large spreads. One fella told me of an area where he thought there was an old calvalry camp. I started out that way this morning walking near an area that looked like it had water long ago. My first hit was solid and strong. It read as shallow and found two old cartridges near each other. I do not know much about these old ones, so if you have any ideas, please let me know.

Both were about one inch down in very find gravel mixed with desert sand.

1) 50 Cal. - Head stamp: Top "C" Bottom "F" Left "7" Right "80" Has firing pin mark, but no apparent primer - 2 Inches Long

2) 44 Cal. - Head stamp: Top "W.R.A. Co." Bottom "44 W.C.F." Has firing pin mark and primer - 1 Inch Long

Enjoy!

 

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[BosnMate]

That's an inside primed, Indian Wars carbine round. The C stands for carbine, and it was loaded with 55 grains of black powder, under a 405 grain bullet that was seated deep, on the powder. Earlier they were loaded with wads under the bullet, so the round looked exactly like the rifle round that was loaded with 70 grains of powder. Sneaky enlisted men would slip a rifle round in the officers ammunition so that he would be kicked harder, so the army started seating the bullet deeper and started head stamping C for carbine, and R for rifle. Very early inside primed bullets had no head stamp. The crease just above the base was to hold the inside primed cup in place.

 

[ce550av8r]

That's pretty cool.

 

[BosnMate]

I left out a couple of things, the F stands for Frankford Arsenal, and the 7 means month and 80 is year, so it's a 45-55 cartridge, loaded in July of 1880 at Frandford Arsenal. You have hit on something near and dear to me, I love to shoot these guns. Here's a video made at Fort Abraham Lincoln about the 45-55 carbine.
And if you are interested, here's a link about Frankford Arsenal: Frankford Arsenal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[GrizLeeBear]

Thank you Bosn! I worked with many Bosn Mates in the Navy and they always knew the answer! Very informative.

 

[BosnMate]

The 45-55 carbine is the cavalry arm, shortened for carrying on horseback. It's the little brother of the 45-70, which was the rifle, and in the beginning fired a 500 grain bullet over 70 grains of black powder. Here is a collection of various 45-70 cartridges. Note on the left, three are inside primed, loaded with 405 grain bullets, and you can't tell by looking which is a rifle load, and which is a carbine load with 55 grains of powder. The fourth is a rifle cartridge loaded with a 500 grain bullet and a carbine round is next, still loaded on top of wads, then another 500 grain and a carbine bullet with out wads, seated on the powder. And finally they are nickle plated for naval use, protection from the salt air, and I think also the leather cartridge belts caused the copper or gilding metal cases to get gungy. This cartridge was used by the military from 1873 and was still in use by the National Guard through WWI, and was also made for civilian use up until today, which is probably the longest running history of any cartridge ever. Finally here is a very rare version. The very first head stamp on the cartridge was a raised U S Carbine. They only made them for a short time, and even a found empty brass would be worth some money. If you had a good one the last time I checked they were around $300, and I'm sure they are worth more now.

 

[DJWEHAGE]

That is very cool!

 

[kuger]

Great post Bosn. I have dug those and never knew all that!!!

 

[BosnMate]

Thank you Bosn! I worked with many Bosn Mates in the Navy and they always knew the answer! Very informative.

We used a 45-70 blank for the line throwing gun. The Gunners Mate that shot it always aimed for the bridge of the other ship. Being young dumb kids, we thought that was funny. nobody got hurt, and I'm still smiling when thinking about it now.