Sense of entitlement.

[ryaan21]

This post is a offshoot of a post further down concerning someone taking someone to a sopt to hunt,one hits it big,how should it be split.

It shouldnt be. The finder owes no one anything aside from the landowner perhaps. I made a new post on this subject because it has always bothered me how people feel they are simply entitled to someone elses good fortune. This isnt directed at anyone here,it is just a general observation.

So what? Your brother digs a gold coin worth thousands There is no legal claim to be had by anyone. Well exept maybe the landowner.


It amazes how people this day and age have such a sense of entitlement.



True story. A man in our town won a significant amount of money on the lotto. His EX wife heard about it and tried to get a claim on the money. Now they werent recently divorced,they had been divorced for years. She left him. She cheated on him. ANd had been gone for many years. But when he won the money he actually had to go to court to fend off this worthless sleazebag. It amazes me even further how the courts even entertain this kind of nonsense.


I just finished one experiment on this subject by having an article printed in my local paper about an item i found. The article spread via the AP wire so its widely circulated. I am waiting to see if anyone tries to lay claims to anything ive found.


Another experiment im planning with the help of a local reporter is to "find" a cache of gold coins and have him do a "report" on it jsut to see who will come and try to take them. Then we are going to turn the article into a piece on greed and sense of entitlement. Any ideas or thoughts?

 

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[johnnycat]

My sentiments exactly. The world is full of scammers.

 

[Montana Fireball]

Be real interesting if someone won a judgement on something that didn't exist in the first place. But courts being what they are, the finder of the fictious item would be bound by a court order and could be found in comtempt, when they do not produce. This can result in jail time, but hey what do I know my wife is only a para-legal. Have fun with the experiment!

 

[ryaan21]

Be real interesting if someone won a judgement on something that didn't exist in the first place. But courts being what they are, the finder of the fictious item would be bound by a court order and could be found in comtempt, when they do not produce. This can result in jail time, but hey what do I know my wife is only a para-legal. Have fun with the experiment!

Interesting. I have a hard time seeing how the person holding the ficticious item could be held in contempt as they arent the ones who brought the situation to the courts attention. I completely understand your post though.

The experiment would end before such things could take place. It would be brought to the crooks attention that the whole thing was a setup to catch dishonest people. Thanks for the reply.

 

[madcow_number_6]

Sometimes I wish there existed a Judge of Common Sense. If someone is found to be seriously lacking(I.E. claiming part ownership of someone else's good luck), they get a nice public Beeotch slapping.

my two cents

 

[ryaan21]

Sometimes I wish there existed a Judge of Common Sense. If someone is found to be seriously lacking(I.E. claiming part ownership of someone else's good luck), they get a nice public Beeotch slapping.

my two cents

Boy you sure said it. The gall of some people in this day and age is amazing. And the fact that our court system lets it go on is even more mind boggling.


I was doing some reading on the company that discovered the "spanish" treasure. This is a frickin outrage. The company payed and researched to have this discovery and now some tool who was to lazy to do it themselves wants in? Even if it was a spanish ship to begin with the crap on it was looted and pillaged or gotten by slave labor. So what real claim does spain have.


I am all for a "to lazy law". Meaning if you didnt dig it personally,you have ZERO ZERO ZERO rights to it.


And then you got the treasure laws in england. These people are out of their minds. If the government in england is so concerned why dont they dig and find stuff?? If i detected there not one item would be claimed. I hate to say it but its bullcrap. I would report ZERO finds and have to deal with ZERO archies.

I may sound like im ranting but i jsut get fired up reading in the treasure in the news section about all these people who end up handing their stuff over. I already decided that if anyone tries to take my artifact that its going in the burn barrel.

 

[Jeffro]

I've thought about doing what you're doing a time or two- it'll be real interesting to know the outcome! Please keep us informed!

 

[sniffer]

ryaan21, you must be forgetting, England is not a democracy, the crown still owns everything, you're just basically renting it, while you're still sucking wind. Anything found of any value is automatically assumed to be long to the crown.

 

[stanjam]

Let's not forget that the original post, and a lot of subsequent ones, are a case where the MD'er is letting another person in on their area. This is an area THEY researched, and then allowed someone else in on the secret. That is not the same as someone who has no claim at all to someone else's finds. Since the only reason they found anything is through someone else's work, the question is asked "Does the finder owe anything to the person who did the research, and out of the goodness of his/her heart, allowed someone else to come detecting on his find?"

This is not quite the same as someone trying to capitalize on someone else for no reason. There are ethical considerations here. If I found a cache on a piece of property someone else did the research on, and invited me to help detect, I would indeed feel obligated to give them a part of that find, since I never would have had the opportunity to find it without their help!

 

[ryaan21]

Let's not forget that the original post, and a lot of subsequent ones, are a case where the MD'er is letting another person in on their area. This is an area THEY researched, and then allowed someone else in on the secret. That is not the same as someone who has no claim at all to someone else's finds. Since the only reason they found anything is through someone else's work, the question is asked "Does the finder owe anything to the person who did the research, and out of the goodness of his/her heart, allowed someone else to come detecting on his find?"

This is not quite the same as someone trying to capitalize on someone else for no reason. There are ethical considerations here. If I found a cache on a piece of property someone else did the research on, and invited me to help detect, I would indeed feel obligated to give them a part of that find, since I never would have had the opportunity to find it without their help!

They also didnt have to invite somone to come hunt it. Thats the risk thats taken. Sure there may be some ethical reasons for sharing the loot.

I wouldnt hesitate to to give someone a cut of the goodies. But the second they made me feel like i owed them anything is the second i decide they arent getting ANYTHING.

If there wasnt an agreed upon split at the start of the hunt the researcher has no room or reason to complain.


And as for items being property of the crown, I understand your post and respect it. I jsut have a hard time seeing how something that was there long before the crown can be claimed by the crown as its own personal property. I know its the law,it jsut doesnt sit well with me.

I would love to see the reasoning for this. Because its in the ground,it belongs to the crown? Im not doubting your statement at all im jsut kinda thinking out loud here. Is that the general idea?

Im surprised more people havent jsut kept the treasure they found and not reported it.


I like a good discussion and this one is the result of post reading and personal experience. I found an artifact from ancient times and while trying to get it identified I was told by and archie that I better tell her where i found it immediately and not to go digging there again. I told her she will never know the location and i plan on hunting it as much as possible.

Maybe not the right thing to say in hindsight, but her automatic sense of entitlement astounded me.

Thanks for all the replies. Helps me pass the days till all the snow is gone haha.

 

[truckinbutch]

I have many pristine areas to hunt and offer to share a spot or two with strangers in an attempt to determine character.Treasure hunting is like any other hunting and fishing.More fun to share with a friend(s).
The abuse my family has suffered from inviting one person in for one day of fishing or game hunting that they developed a sense of entitlement from and brought back 6 friends uninvited another day and were PO'ed when they all got run off has made me cautious and protective.
You come hunting with me at one of my sites,this is a one day thing and we share the day;win,lose,draw.
My site,my rules,and don't you dare slide back in uninvited with a bunch of your friends another day.
Am I a P***K?...Probably....But I spent the years paying the taxes,doing the research,being the neighbor in the community to have access to what I offer to a new aquaintence.
It's a matter of individual integrity.

 

[mastereagle22]

I made the mistake of taking someone to a spot I had secured. the person didn't fill in holes made a mess and complained non-stop about how crappy the place was.

Now when I hunt with my buddy we both know the rules ahead of time. IF we ever bring anyone to one of our sites again we will go over all the rules and regs prior to any hunting being done.

That being said I agree with people feeling entitled. I feel bad when I am hunting and find good stuff and my buddy doesn't and it was his spot but he feels the same when the shoe is on the other foot.

But I would say I agree with you people today are greedy and sneaky for the most part. There are still some good people out there though.

 

[ryaan21]

I have many pristine areas to hunt and offer to share a spot or two with strangers in an attempt to determine character.Treasure hunting is like any other hunting and fishing.More fun to share with a friend(s).
The abuse my family has suffered from inviting one person in for one day of fishing or game hunting that they developed a sense of entitlement from and brought back 6 friends uninvited another day and were PO'ed when they all got run off has made me cautious and protective.
You come hunting with me at one of my sites,this is a one day thing and we share the day;win,lose,draw.
My site,my rules,and don't you dare slide back in uninvited with a bunch of your friends another day.
Am I a P***K?...Probably....But I spent the years paying the taxes,doing the research,being the neighbor in the community to have access to what I offer to a new aquaintence.
It's a matter of individual integrity.

I agree with your post. However unless it is private land how could you stop someone from comming back? I hate that society has sh1tbums in it,people who would sell their own mothers to get a "cut".


Unfortunately paying taxes,research,and being a neighbor dont amount to much if it is public property. Private property is another story.

 

[sniffer]

I was talking to my accountants wife today (she's from England) and she told me that the crown is basically just a figurehead now, however property of historical value is still regarded as property of the crown since the crown at one time did own all the land, and all the lords and vassals swore fealty to the king on the day of his coronation. sounds like a real pain in the a$$ to me
when I'm searching with somebody on their site, if I find something nice, I don't brag about it, if I don't find anything, well I got the chance to check out a new spot with a friend and spend the day soaking in the sun. It's all good when you're MD'ing

Sniffer

 

[pegleglooker]

Hey all,
2 comments,
1- English treasure rules are better then what we have here. If you find something, you have to turn it over to a " local " arche ( can you imagine every town having a arche working at city hall ). If it has value ( and it always does ) then it is sent to the museum. If the museum wants it they pay you for it ( current value ). Remember the guy who found roman coins and was paid over 300k ( if I remember right ).
2- About this " greed " thing I agree. I have been saying for years that there needs to be a LAW against GREED...I don't mean that one should not get a " fair " value for their time and or product. However, tooo much is greed. Problem is who is the one whose going to say that tooo much is toooo much ?!?!? Example oil companies GOUGE their customers every holiday. Ever notice how the prices go Up before a holiday and then back down ( just a little ) after the holiday To me this is a " proof " of greed.... There really is no reason for this, I mean we use more on these weekends and if anything, the price should go down based on volumes consumed...Buuuuutttt does it noooooooo.... OK now we open foe debate

PLL

 

[Jeffro]

Wellllll,

Remember those gas lines? It would seem the gas stations figured a way around it. Jack up the price when nearing a holiday weekend, people find out about it and they come in early and fill up, or wait until after to fill up, smoothing out the volume and reducing the chance they need to call a tanker in twice in one day.

I mean, just off the top of my head.......

 

[truckinbutch]

I have many pristine areas to hunt and offer to share a spot or two with strangers in an attempt to determine character.Treasure hunting is like any other hunting and fishing.More fun to share with a friend(s).
The abuse my family has suffered from inviting one person in for one day of fishing or game hunting that they developed a sense of entitlement from and brought back 6 friends uninvited another day and were PO'ed when they all got run off has made me cautious and protective.
You come hunting with me at one of my sites,this is a one day thing and we share the day;win,lose,draw.
My site,my rules,and don't you dare slide back in uninvited with a bunch of your friends another day.
Am I a P***K?...Probably....But I spent the years paying the taxes,doing the research,being the neighbor in the community to have access to what I offer to a new aquaintence.
It's a matter of individual integrity.

I agree with your post. However unless it is private land how could you stop someone from comming back? I hate that society has sh1tbums in it,people who would sell their own mothers to get a "cut".


Unfortunately paying taxes,research,and being a neighbor dont amount to much if it is public property. Private property is another story.
What I am talking about is all private property.Public land is just that....fair game for all.
When some fellow after being allowed in one time to hunt,fish,TH ,or whatever shows up with his friends at a later date unannounced and without permission it puts a sour taste in the entire community's mouth.
End result is "NO STRANGERS ALLOWED".Ruins it for all of us.

 

[Yarrum]

I can't wait to hear the results of your false coin hoard find....... Keep us posted.

cheers

 

[sniffer]

to make your find have a ring of truth, you may want to try to tie it to a local legend or treasure folk lore for your area

 

[Montana Fireball]

Now let's say you bought your land 25 years ago from a family that owned it for over 120 years. You go metal detecting it and find a nice big cache of silver coins from the 1880's. Inside the cache is a engraved pocket watch with the name of the original owner. Word gets out about the find and reaches the ears of the descendants of the orginial man who buried the money and watch. They hire a lawyer and it gets a court date and you get an order to appear. It is too late to deny the name on the watch or the money it had made the papers. In most states guess who will win the cache and watch? Guess who still has a lawyer bill even though they currently own the land for the last 25 years?
Does your home state's laws favor you or the descendants of the person who buried the money?
Does the saying finders keepers give a false sense of entitlement?
Just food for thought!