Serranilla bank beacon cay and other interesting sites

[seagreen12]

In 1993 I was a divemaster on a poor excuse for an expedition to these locations anyone been there or know of anything happening in the region?
The expedition I was on was cursed, and supposdly fully sanction by the columbian gov. The expedition was typical no joy but still fun and I have a lot of good stories.

 

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[bradandmilan]

Serranilla bank definitely looks interesting. Wikipedia entry says "hundrets of wrecked ships" [not my misspelling]. Nigel Pickford's book "The Atlas of Shipwrecks and Treasure" says that 4 Spanish ships - part of the fleet of Luis Hernandez de Cordoba - sank there in 1605, none yet recovered. The cargo of any one of these would be nice to find. If I were in the business of recovery, I would research this one further. Let me know of your level of interest.

Some confusion apparently exists over whether this is US territory or not.

Also sounds like a dangerous area, both naturally and criminally. Proceed cautiously.

Brad

 

[seagreen12]

officially it might be disputed but from my experience I can tell you that the Columbian marines have landed and things are well in hand. there prime mission on several of the cays is survival training but i probably think the real reason they where there was Counter Narcotic and to keep the Hondurans from trying to retake the land.
The intel we had for the wrecks was spotty and the deep pockets we had refused to listen to any reasonable thinking insisting on searching the deeper side of the reefs (with piss poor detection equipment) even after recovering some intersting finds on the lee side. All in all it was interesting lesson for me.

I am always willing to discuss the details just ping me I have had several offers to go back but none lucrative enough to be worth my time at present.
cheers

 

[Salvor6]

Hey Seagreen, I watched with great interest when Pacific Geographic Co. went there. Is this the expedition you were on? Was Eric White there? What was his job? A friend of mine claims he found the Santo Domingo of the 1605 fleet and it was far from Seranilla.

 

[wreckdiver1715]

My understanding is that the marines are ineffective against the lawless nature of this coast, and the FARC is just a small part of the problem. The Columbian National Police are responsible for counter drug operations, with a little help from there friends. Unfortunately, my contacts inside Columbia say it is still much too dangerous at this time.



I just can't put my finger on it... Just yet!

Q

 

[seagreen12]

Yep that was the trip I bailed after a couple of months the name Eric White rings a bell was he a beaker (scientist) or archaeologist? As I understand it when I left the replacement divemaster killed a couple of divers but nothing confirmed. There was alot of Narco activity and piracy probes but nothing major while I was there. The place was kind of spooky lots of people died horrible deaths on those reefs. The vessel was the Lone Star 100 foot crew boat the capt was a young guy who ended up leaving and the skipper who took over was pretty good ex UDT troop, As I recall he ended up going on Pacific side with the vessel and ws running tourist dives near an offshore island west of Costa Rica, he had the tourist doing search patterns and airlifting sand! they actually paid him to do it! Hoo Yaa! When I left I went back to Africa for a bit and then went to Peru to do SAR work on a CN project, I would go back there again but like WD1715 says the marines are ineffective but They will bring you underfire unless you have perms to go ashore and the places we looked where all within easy reach of the FP set up I saw. never went up to roncodor but that looked pretty good as well.

 

[Salvor6]

Right! Eric was an archaeologist on the trip. He worked for my company after that and he told me the whole story. Crazy trip! There was one idiot who howled at the moon, right? Well, you can't go back there without a permit and Columbia will not issue one.

 

[Mackaydon]

Seagreen 12:
I recall your trip to the "Sarah". The owner, if I'm correct, was a dentist from Long Beach, now deceased. You had another diver from San Diego with you and an arch from the government who would not allow two divers in the water at the same time (for fear the other diver would find something?). The trip was a 'zero' and you used another Col. island (Andreas ?) for your logistics.

Those who go there go for the "1605" fleet. I believe the island was origiinally a 'guano' island controlled by the US. Then the Hondurans claimed the island with the US. Then the Col. came along (bigger guns than the Hondurans) and now claim the island; the US having given up its guano interests years earlier.

About ten years ago, I flew over the site with a Honduran naval officer, in prep for a salvage op. Imagine the expression we saw on the Honduran officer's face when he saw the Col. flag flying over the barracks!! Notwithstanding, we 'worked' the outer islands for some time, finding nothing. There is a prevailing 2k current in the area, but that increases rapidly between the keys.

The chart on this thread is NOT of the 'Sarah' islands. We came under fire from the island while anchoring a holf mile off to the south of Beacon Key. We 'retreated' to the keys to the east. Only when we watched the Col. gunboat approach did we get the message to keep heading for Cayman, which we did.

You also mentioned Roncodor. Any connection with the Am. Civil War?
All the best,
Don MacKay
R/V Explorer
Roatan, Honduras

 

[bradandmilan]

Seagreen - Here's a few questions for you... What interesting items were found when you were there? Why do you think you would go back? What more can you tell us about that 1993 fiasco?

Let's hear a story or two.

Brad

 

[seagreen12]

Capt. M and Brad:
Capt. you are correct on most of your assessment, we had Columbian Marines attached to us when ever we put a diver over the side, there task was to monitor us from swallowing emeralds and such, my experience was they where more interested in spearing trash fish and would really be offended if you came up with more air in your tank then they did they had a serious problem with Machismo it got to the point that I would purge air just to keep from causing issues. We came under fire prior to making contact with the Marines.

Brad some stories follow:

The crew was horribly under prepared including myself the ex udt skipper was pretty sharp topside (but never got wet, ever... humnn) i believe he went by Terry, and there was an engineer from Cali - David who was pretty good but he left, Cohen the deep pockets brought in another guy from Cali that had his act together I remember thinking He might bring this around he had a bad leg and i dont recall his last name but he went by Mike S, I met him briefly but that was at the end of my trip.

I had the diving part down as well as the in water search (visual and electronic) but the rest was way beyond my scope of experience, I learned a tremendous amount about prime power plants, gennys and air steerage, I actually spent a good bit of time skippering and working as engineer as well as master diver. I undertook the trip primarily to get away from a women and thats pretty sad in itself


The period I was on board there was no Arch other then the infamous Capt Johnson who didn't really know much either but to be fair he did managed to get permits from the Colombians. I like Capt Johnson felt sorry for him as this was his dream and it was easy to see it was falling apart, the real Arch was due out within weeks I believe he was from S. Florida and semi famous in the comunity.At that point I didn't really care anymore about all the supposed things that where going to happen.

With help of Columbian Marines we made it ashore, on beacon key, I fixed there solar power system for the radio and after that was treated like a minor God they could actually listen to football matches! Out of habit I did a covert assessment of there facility and in my mind it was well set up good interlocking fields of fire, the weapons where clean (no easy task in that environment) but they had poor berthing facilities for the amount of troops and other factors that in my security mind make them open to easy targeting there morale was weak as well which as any team leader knows creates issues.

We worked near Beacon Key for several days and on one occasion I brought up broken pottery chard's and he (johnson) asked me what it was? We moved around less then 2ks in this area and on another dive I found a fairly large section of wood appearing to be a rudder that was held together with wooden dowels, located under about 1 meter sand I remember it clearly because two of the supposed experienced divers swam right over an exposed section. I spent a good bit of time on it moving sand with a paddle and when they noticed i wsnt there all came back including the marines they attacked it with visions of chests of gold underneath! I knew at that time I was packing my sea bag and lifting off.

I had several other issues including the SOW or contract (for lack of better term) said we would uncover any items in an archaeological sound matter this was one of the reasons (besides bailing on the chick) for my decision to go in the first place, I have always wanted to work on a project in that manner. However as soon as we found the wood it was bring the vessel over set up the pumps and start sucking, I didn't agree with that and voiced my opinion, most especially to the Colombians LT on board we set sail shortly after that back to San Andres (SA).

The second issue I had was cohen kept wanting to work the deep side from previous intel that he had (thats my assessment) but he continually pushed Johnson on working the deep side, my reply was it wasn't safe or effective as we had some POS magnetometer that wouldn't calibrate and a couple of pulse 8X(s), the major method for search was sled drags which i knew was pretty ineffectual, most especially with the support vessel a sea ark with a weak 4 banger diesel and a Cayuga that some idiot decided to buy once on station in SA, the thing was a pig, totally waterlogged and was not the means to reach the end, I wanted some RIBS or a Whaler or at least an IFBS. In my inexperienced mind the way the trades blew, and seas pushed anything that made contact and would get pushed over the barely submerged reef most especially after loosing some ballast and keel, still not sure if this theory is correct but its my story and i am sticking to it. I remember finding ballast stones in the same area as the rudder but as I recall it was further north along the ridge.

We left after a couple of days for several reason Number one was the Pot water tank seal failed and the water tank fouled with sea water, the RO unit was FUBARED and I used it as an anchor. We had several injury's due to inexperienced hands and we decided to head back to SA to regroup, I had several confidential conversations with the Columbian LT and I think he pushed it.

Once ashore I was asked to a private meeting by the Military and asked to take over the project
I would have considered it but they wouldn't remove any of the upper tier folks including the Dr. from L.A. I remember thinking when we initially hove into port at SA I was stunned by the amount of cash being handed out as bribes I thought humm i could roll these folks and make off pretty well. Once a pirate always a pirate

Would I go back? jeez I am a glutton for punishment I have done alot of stupid things just to do them.
the only issue now is I am married with one kid of my own and several mouths that need fed. Where as at that time I only had a dog and a psycho cocoa beach gal. It was easy to cut loose, but probably would do something again especially with the bank from working here

I feel there is lots to find there it all adds up the length of sail from Cartagna (SP) put those galleons in poor favor with the reefs that go wet at high tide, poor charts and poor nav make it highly probable that something foundered what fleet it is and all the other speculation is beyond my pay level...
Wow thats the most I havewriiten in non work related report hope it answers questions and fires up the imagination
Seagreen12
out

 

[Mackaydon]

Hello Seagreen:
Many thanks for that come back. I recall a man-made tent-like structure on one of the smaller outer cays and now wonder if that was from your tour of the islands. We did a lot of sledding on the 'outside'; then a storm came up and we went inside. Finding little relief there (my alum. dive platform ripped off--twisted metal--quite a site), we headed to the lea of the weather and found ourselves 1/2 mile off the south side of Beacon Key; where the UNfriendlies decided to 'adjust their scopes'. A Honduran lobster boat achored up next to us on the island side (our port side), and the 'pinging' on our hulll ceased. Somewhere that night (green water over the bow for hours, and we're hanging on a 3/4 line), the lobster boat's lights just went out. We never saw it again.
Somewhere out there is the '1605' fleet. We've looked for it as far West as Swan Islands; but that's another story.
All the best,
Don...

 

[bradandmilan]

Seagreen,

Thanks for the story. Sounds like a poorly planned charlie foxtrot from the get-go.

If anyone has access to the Spanish archives, and feels like sharing... What are the details on the 1605 fleet of Luis Hernandez de Cordoba, particularly the 4 ships (Nuestra Senora De Begona, San Ambrosia, San Roque, and Santo Domingo) lost on the Serranilla Bank?

Brad

 

[Mackaydon]

Brad and Seagreen:

It is not difficult to find information regarding the galleons of "1605". No one doubts that they existed and were all lost in a terrrible storm. Many have searched those islands, some have found artifacts, but, I don't believe anyone has ever positively ID-ed anything from "1605". The discovery of those wrecks on "Sarah" (or anywhere else) would make make any Florida galleon wreck look like 'kindergarden' (no offense to my friends there).

I'll give you one piece of research that continues to haunt me. While the records record no specific discovery of the "1605s", the record does record this: In 1690, 85 years after 'the event', the English sent the 5th rater, Drake, to 'Sarah' to protect English interest from the French who were harassing the English in their pursuit of "recovering riches from a shipwreck".

This was my clue to go to Kew Gardens (outside of London) where the logs of these vessels are stored. The logs of the Drake were there, but you can imagine the log year that was "missing and presumed lost." Right: 1690. Pure coincidence or intended theft? No date for the 'date of record loss' was recorded.

Another source for a second log written concurrently might be pursued by the next generation of TH-ers.
BTY, the 1690 account can probably be found by any researcher in a large library. UCLA and UCSD, out here on the left coast, are two source locations.
All the best,
Don.......

 

[bradandmilan]

Don,

Thanks for the info on the Drake. That disappearing logbook kinda makes you wonder.

Brad

 

[bradandmilan]

Cornelius, glad to see we attracted your attention. Between Don, seagreen, and you, we might just get somewhere on these 4 ships.

Don, no luck yet with my research on the Drake. Just a mention in the UK national archives. Maybe I am looking in the wrong places, plus I also likely do not know how to search for the Drake.

Brad

 

[Mackaydon]

Cornelius:
Searchers for those four wrecks may naturally start with the 'easier' method; searching waters surrounding land. "Sarah" and many other islands and coastal waters may one day give up that secret. But since those vessels were all 'lost at sea'--and no survivors are in the historic record to testify as to 'where' they may have wrecked, it's anyone's guess. The subject is great fodder for this thread, and may inspire someone to examine the situation in another manner that will lead to their discovery.

Perhaps a secret might be found in the records that survive indicating an alternative path for the fleet. Perhaps, more reserach on the 1690 event will shed further light. Then there is the French who were also at "Sarah" in 1690. Research regarding those vessels and the whereabouts of those French logs might prove helpful.

All of which takes me back to the what many, including myself feel about this subject--and life:
The reward is in the journey, not the destination.
All the best,
Don.....

 

[Mackaydon]

Cornelius:
Long before Marx, information regarding the "1605s" was public knowledge. For example, I found significant reference to them in either (or both) of the following:
Channu, Huiguette and Pierre. "Seville det L'Atlantique" Nine Vols;. 1955 Paris
Duro, Fernandez C. de. "Armade Espanola. 1878. Madrid.
Within the Bibliograhpy section of both Potter's and Marx's books, there is a lifetime of great book reading (like those cited above) that may provide the lead to these (the 1605 s), and other significant discoveries.
Best,
Don.....

 

[flaminngohse]

ATTENTION JEFF ROBERTS (REDTAIL) *** This reply is from Mike S (part owner of the Lone Star at the time along with Dale Smith) which departed Freeport, Texas for San Andreas, Colombia. If you were actually the Divemaster on this particular expedition, then the fact that it was "poor excuse for an expedition" was actually your fault too or were you one of the people that were kicked out (persona non-grata) by the governments of both Honduras and Nicaragua? I actually don't remember you but after you left the expedition did quite well because we did find what we were looking for. We only had a Search and Identify contract and that is exactly what we did in the last week and a half of the expedition thanks to the diligent effort of Captain Ted Spaugy. I understand that the Columbian govt. never gave Dr. Cohen a recovery contract even though he spent better than half a mil for our expedition and trying to adquire the recovery contract. We departed at the end of our charter to the West coast of Costa Rica and did charter to a group of Texans and Ukrainians for Cocos Island. After the Cocos we sold the boat to a Venezualean oil company. If you want to get the actual facts about the whole expedition just shoot me a line. [email protected] - Michael Soper, Guatemala 502-5667-5974 If you want to put together another expedition I'd love to go back there!

 

[godisnum1]

ATTENTION JEFF ROBERTS (REDTAIL) *** This reply is from Mike S (part owner of the Lone Star at the time along with Dale Smith) which departed Freeport, Texas for San Andreas, Colombia. If you were actually the Divemaster on this particular expedition, then the fact that it was "poor excuse for an expedition" was actually your fault too or were you one of the people that were kicked out (persona non-grata) by the governments of both Honduras and Nicaragua? I actually don't remember you but after you left the expedition did quite well because we did find what we were looking for. We only had a Search and Identify contract and that is exactly what we did in the last week and a half of the expedition thanks to the diligent effort of Captain Ted Spaugy. I understand that the Columbian govt. never gave Dr. Cohen a recovery contract even though he spent better than half a mil for our expedition and trying to adquire the recovery contract. We departed at the end of our charter to the West coast of Costa Rica and did charter to a group of Texans and Ukrainians for Cocos Island. After the Cocos we sold the boat to a Venezualean oil company. If you want to get the actual facts about the whole expedition just shoot me a line. [email protected] - Michael Soper, Guatemala 502-5667-5974 If you want to put together another expedition I'd love to go back there!

I thought no one had permission to get on Cocos? From what I read, the Costa Rican government wasn't permitting anyone to go on any expeditions to the island? If you did happen to take an expedition there, I would be VERY interested in hearing all about it... if you don't mind.

Bran <><

 

[belizeanpirate]

I hate to bring up something so mundane, but how was the diving out there? Was the reef in good condition and healthy and was there much fish life? Were there sharks frequently as Robert Marx describes when he went out to do Serranilla in the 60s? I would like to go and do some exploration out there sometime next year and I do not just want to go on the off chance that I find treasure, although that would certainly be nice. I do think the journey and the here and now beauty of daily life are more important than the dream of hitting the mother lode, so that is why I ask these questions. Would I enjoy the diving and the scenery? I actually do not find remote places spooky and have a very centered being that enjoys beauty wherever it can be found, so the remoteness and thinking about all the people who died out there would not affect me in the least bit. People die everywhere and in great numbers. New York City would be one of the scariest places on earth if one were worried about the violently dead all of the time.