Stephen Girard & the Opium Trade?

[Rebel - KGC]

"IF" you wish to keep trying to fit Beale Sr. into the story then you need to determine if he was related, in some way, to your Salt Lick Beale. The problem with thinking that Beale Sr. is your guy is the simple fact that nobody in the area knew him during his visits to Morriss. If Beale Sr. was you man then his identity would have easily been known.

LOL! Thomas Beale, Sr. NEVER visited RM; HE moved to New Orleans, LA, after the duel with JB Risque... dying in 1820. I NEVER mentioned "Salt Lick" Beale, and DON'T CARE!

 

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[ECS]

When the movie comes out, I can't wait to see the scene when Thomas Beale walks into an opium warehouse with his ducksfoot pistol, and says, "Meet my leetle friend!".

 

[Old Silver]

Is the picture and information of the grave I posted insignificant?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Is the picture and information of the grave I posted insignificant?

To ME, it is...

 

[Old Silver]

To ME, it is...

Fair enough.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Fair enough.

OK...

 

[bigscoop]

LOL! Thomas Beale, Sr. NEVER visited RM; HE moved to New Orleans, LA, after the duel with JB Risque... dying in 1820. I NEVER mentioned "Salt Lick" Beale, and DON'T CARE!

You're still missing the big picture. EVERYONE is aware of Beale Sr.'s local history and his move to New Orleans and his KNOWN activities there. "By himself, he cannot be your man." Given his local history, do you really think he could have returned to the Bedford area without anyone knowing who he was? Second, the physical description does not fit him, and third, he was not from a western portion of the state. If Beale Sr had returned to the Bedford area then he would have been easily recognized by many and easily identified, nor was he universally known. So by himself, he is clearly not your man. But was he a part of something unknown that was connected to the events....?

 

[Rebel - KGC]

You're still missing the big picture. EVERYONE is aware of Beale Sr.'s local history and his move to New Orleans and his KNOWN activities there. "By himself, he cannot be your man." Given his local history, do you really think he could have returned to the Bedford area without anyone knowing who he was? Second, the physical description does not fit him, and third, he was not from a western portion of the state. If Beale Sr had returned to the Bedford area then he would have been easily recognized by many and easily identified, nor was he universally known. So by himself, he is clearly not your man. But was he a part of something unknown that was connected to the events....?

"Part of something unknown"... NOT to my knowledge. DON'T really care...

 

[ECS]

You're still missing the big picture. EVERYONE is aware of Beale Sr.'s local history .... If Beale Sr had returned to the Bedford area then he would have been easily recognized by many and easily identified, nor was he universally known. So by himself, he is clearly not your man. But was he a part of something unknown that was connected to the events....?

Unknown to all those Bonapartists you claim were in Bedford county?

 

[bigscoop]

Guys I really wish the solution was as simple as you want it to be...but it isn't. You're simply going to have to try to understand everything that was going in the country at the time in order to understand what the author has very clearly spelled out for you. You guys are still stuck on this being a French thing and it isn't, only that it included a lot of French/Bonapartist participation. And in order to understand that then you have to understand what that really means and the principles being held. So it's about principles and values and those differences.

At Galveston Island you had Laffitte, those at Bolivar and Champ D"asile, and you had insurgents like James Long. At face value they're all pursuing the same thing, but here's the key....they are all doing so with a different set of principles and beliefs.

I'm betting that most of you don't even realize, that some years later, Britain actually threatened war over the annexation of Texas. And you're probably asking yourself what that has to do with anything, and yet it has everything to do with what the author was telling you. It's all about the big picture......once you get the big picture all of the pieces can be found. Not a single date in that pamphlet was used or referenced without reason.

And in Virginia there was great divide in regards to these principles. That's spelled out very clearly in even the general history books. So it's about principles/politics, etc., these same differences being played out over the west.

 

[ECS]

Ok now I'm asking for your help!!! Please Who were the agents for the Bonapartes look to buy real estate in Bedford county during the CW I had some of this info before and lost it on my old laptop.

When Jerome Bonaparte was married to Elizabeth,he inherited the Patterson properties in Maryland and Virginia-after the divorce, his claims were disavowed by the US courts, returning ownership to Elizabeth Patterson.
Prince Jerome knew he had a snowballs chance in hell to regain the Maryland properties in 1862, but sent his barristers to Richmond,hoping the Confederate government would give him the rights to the property (Fairfax county?), but Southern man didn't need Prince Jerome around.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Girard's opium trade was covered in my Ward" thread.
The GIRARD BANK OF PHILDELPHIA was the United States representative of England's BARING BANK, thereby being the holder of the BRITISH EAST INDIA CO's assets in America.

Were they affiliated with Joseph Heco and Senator Gwin?

Curious, L.C.

 

[L.C. BAKER]

Well...when all of the smoke cleared out, this was a darn good thread guys, very interesting.

L.C.

 

[ECS]

... You're simply going to have to try to understand everything that was going in the country at the time in order to understand what the author has very clearly spelled out for you. You guys are still stuck on this being a French thing and it isn't, only that it included a lot of French/Bonapartist participation... And you're probably asking yourself what that has to do with anything, and yet it has everything to do with what the author was telling you. It's all about the big picture...

You're the one who claims the French/Bonapartist connection and the BIG PICTURE!
What year do you believe the "author" was telling the reader about the "BIG PICTURE",1821, the 2nd year of the Confederate War, or 1885?
No matter what, the 1885 Beale Papers was authored/written in the dime novel genre, not as an informative history book.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Well...when all of the smoke cleared out, this was a darn good thread guys, very interesting.

L.C.

ROFL... you made me spill my IRISH Coffee; gotta get my WASSAIL, now.

 

[bigscoop]

You're the one who claims the French/Bonapartist connection and the BIG PICTURE!
What year do you believe the "author" was telling the reader about the "BIG PICTURE",1821, the 2nd year of the Confederate War, or 1885?
No matter what, the 1885 Beale Papers was authored/written in the dime novel genre, not as an informative history book.

There's more to it, but basically the information was being published in 1885 with specific reason, design, and purpose.

 

[bigscoop]

Here's a question that everyone needs to ask themselves....Do you believe that long term plans/strategies can be laid out and executed with precision and certainty? Three years ago I would have said no, today I can say absolutely, and I can say that with 100% confidence. This all plays into the Beale Pamphlet story. From the moment we first purchased the Louisiana Territory we knew we'd eventually get Texas, and we did. If you want to understand the Beale story then you simply need to discover how this was managed. Once you grasp this it's all perfectly clear. My own denial of this very possibility prevented me from seeing this for years. This, and all of the elements involved, is the big picture I keep referencing. No super secret organizations, no KGC, etc., just brilliant politics.

 

[Rebel - KGC]

There's more to it, but basically the information was being published in 1885 with specific reason, design, and purpose.

DO tell...

 

[Rebel - KGC]

Here's a question that everyone needs to ask themselves....Do you believe that long term plans/strategies can be laid out and executed with precision and certainty? Three years ago I would have said no, today I can say absolutely, and I can say that with 100% confidence. This all plays into the Beale Pamphlet story. From the moment we first purchased the Louisiana Territory we knew we'd eventually get Texas, and we did. If you want to understand the Beale story then you simply need to discover how this was managed. Once you grasp this it's all perfectly clear. My own denial of this very possibility prevented me from seeing this for years. This, and all of the elements involved, is the big picture I keep referencing. No super secret organizations, no KGC, etc., just brilliant politics.

DO tell... POLITICS ? !!!

 

[bigscoop]

All you mention was the work of the KGC.

If that's what you wish to believe, fine. But in reality it was just brilliant politics by various administrations. Sure, some of these folks may have been Masons, others may have had ties to KGC and a dozen other organizations, just about anyone of prominence was a member to something. But it certainly wasn't the conspiracy work of any one of them. It was just simple brilliant politics in pursuit of a country with a set of defined principles, even as corrupted as they had become.

To date, with all that I have researched, I have still seen no evidence whatsoever that any of these organizations were materminding these events. In fact, what I have seen is various members of various organizations supporting causes/events/prinicples that were in opposition to each other. Clearly they were not all loyal to each other, but rather they were loyal to thier own individual preferences, whether they be selfserving or for the benifit of many.