Stone Tablets-Most likely planted fakes.

[Hal Croves]

CHLSBRNS,

We aren't talking about Spaniards here. We (at least I) are talking about Jesuits. Jesuits were from MANY different countries. Catholics from Germany used the same symbolism as Catholics from Spain. Catholics in general and Jesuits in particular were firm believers in the notion that their service to God and The Pope FAR outweighed any agreements they had with the Kings of any countries. If Jesuits had made the Stone Maps (as I believe they did), they would not have used symbols in a way that Spaniards would have understood, because what they hid, they were hiding FROM THE SPANISH!

Hal,

We are close. Polzer didn't have the training nor knowledge to tell the difference between hand sanded stones and machine sanded stones. From the days of old, the best way to sand a large surface flat and smooth was to take a more or less flat stone, put some fine sand between it and something harder underneath, move the stone back and forth LITERALLY sanding the surface smooth.

I have played with Dremels and sandstone. I have never made line jumps like that. Those mostly happened when I was scraping grooves with a sharp blade.

You also can't just ignore the evidence of what Travis Tumlinson did with the Stone Maps in the twelve years he owned them. HE MADE SEVERAL TRIPS INTO THE SUPERS TRYING TO SOLVE THEM. HE NEVER TRIED TO SELL THEM. HE NEVER TRIED TO GET THEM INTO ANY NEWSPAPERS OR MAGAZINES. One of the most telling things to me was from the interview Bert Love (Dick Peck's Investigator) did with a long time friend of Travis'. He said that Travis would take the stones out from time to time, and the two of them would sit and try to figure them out. He said that Travis would sit there staring at the stones, stick his finger into the big hole in the lower trail map and say "If I could only figure out where that was, I'd be a millionaire!"

DOES THAT SOUND LIKE THE ACTIONS OF A MAN THAT HOAXED THE STONE MAPS? NO WAY!

Mike

Absolutely not. I am convinced that they were believed to be real, as in historically important. Because Travis believed it doesn't make them any more real. Just like the tucson artifacts or the stone crosses, ultimately the victims were the people involved in the discovery.

Traditional Lithography still uses the same grinding method.

 

Amazon Forum Fav 👍

Agony and Death on a Gold Rush Steamer: The Disastrous Sinking of the Side-Wheeler Yankee Blade - Grab it through Amazon!

[Hal Croves]

Hal, your suspicions of there being any associations between the Stones and Odd Halseth was shown to be without merit.

Unless you do come up with solid proof, I would think it unwise to prematurely cast aspersions on Halseth.

"Shown without merit" I hope that in fairness you will back that with examples. By whom and when? Which specific post?
Or was that just your opinion?

 

[chlsbrns]

I dont want to argue or go back and forth or keep repeating myself.

Me I always lezn twords what an authoritive firgure thinks as opposed to what others think or believe.

Question: the horses head carved on the stone... Does it match up to known trails, canyons, roads and waterways?

 

[deducer]

We still do not know what date is correct.

Are you saying the NPS, Polzer, et al. are all wrong?

 

[deducer]

"Shown without merit" I hope that in fairness you will back that with examples. By whom and when? Which specific post?
Or was that just your opinion?

I am not the first one to point this out to you. Someone else has also pointed it out to you here.

 

[chlsbrns]

Are you saying the NPS, Polzer, et al. are all wrong?

Could be. The book that I linked to was written in the late 1800's. Closer to the time period. I actually don't care.

Right now I would like to know if the horses head matches up to known roads, trails, canyons and waterways. Has anyone ever traced a map that when traced looks like the horses head?

 

[deducer]

Could be. The book that I linked to was written in the late 1800's. Closer to the time period. I actually don't care.

Right now I would like to know if the horses head matches up to known roads, trails, canyons and waterways. Has anyone ever traced a map that when traced looks like the horses head?

That is your opinion- I think I would trust a Jesuit to know one of his own.

As for your second question, I believe Bernice and Jack McGee traced such a map: Mcgee article page 11.

 

[chlsbrns]

I really dont care about which date is correct so I'll say you are correct.

What I really want to know is if the horses head can match up to known roads, ect on a real map.

 

[chlsbrns]

That is your opinion- I think I would trust a Jesuit to know one of his own.

As for your second question, I believe Bernice and Jack McGee traced such a map: Mcgee article page 11.

If the horses head does trace out then the stone must be fake.

 

[deducer]

If the horses head does trace out then the stone must be fake.

If you say so.

 

[Hal Croves]

I am not the first one to point this out to you. Someone else has also pointed it out to you here.

You are being vague. I can take intelligent criticism. Perhaps I missed it?
Which post specifically?

Halseth's own grandson said without reservation that he could imagine his grandfather making the stones.
Now that's not proof but it is finger pointing... from a family member.

The idea has not been shown to be without merit, far from it in fact, but you are correct in that it is unproven.

 

[chlsbrns]

If you say so.

Think about it. What it would take to make such a map. The tools and expertise. The layout and knowledge of the land. A whole lot of land! I looked at the pdf showing the outline. Without surveying equipment you cant possibly be so exact. Especially when carving from memory. Im sure some, most or all of the roads were not even there in peraltas day. Rivers and waterways change. If you had such exact knowledge of the land you wouldnt need a map.

 

[gollum]

CHLSBRNS,

Deducer is correct. Kino became deathly ill in 1663. He vowed to his personal saint (San Francisco Javier) that if got well he would renounce all his worldly possessions and join the Jesuit Order. He eventually got better and became a Jesuit Novitiate in 1665. He took his final vows on 15 August 1684 at the Mission of San Bruno, near Loreto on the Baja Peninsula.

Mike

 

[chlsbrns]

I still think that the stones are a hoax. At best they were made to lead people away from an area. Maybe where caches were buried?

If I had enough interest and lived closer I would search the crap out of the area where the stones were found.

Im assuming that no one noticed or even read the titles or clicked on any titles and read any of the google books that I linked to? At least one had something about burying gold so others could not take it.

 

[Hal Croves]

If I had enough interest and lived closer I would search the crap out of the area where the stones were found.

You would then be one of many who have done the same thing.
Chances are, with the same results.

 

[sgtfda]

Could be. The book that I linked to was written in the late 1800's. Closer to the time period. I actually don't care.

Right now I would like to know if the horses head matches up to known roads, trails, canyons and waterways. Has anyone ever traced a map that when traced looks like the horses head?

Yes it does. I'm surprised no one mentioned the topo

 

[sgtfda]

I believe the 73 Frontier Times. Jack McGee story. Not hard to find on line

 

[deducer]

The idea has not been shown to be without merit, far from it in fact, but you are correct in that it is unproven.

It may not be without merit, but unless you have solid, direct proof, you may want to stop insinuating that Odd Halseth was up to no good as far as the Stone Maps.

 

[chlsbrns]

Imaginary mines:

https://books.google.com/books?id=W...X&ei=C6TsVN21C8K0ggS-r4PADw&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAzgK

 

[motel6.5]

Imaginary mines:

https://books.google.com/books?id=W...X&ei=C6TsVN21C8K0ggS-r4PADw&ved=0CDUQ6AEwAzgK

Chlsbrns, A women with a patch over her eye may just be a little bit near-sited however I still find you intriging.
After the Apaches finished off the Peralatas, and closed up all their mines except 1, higher up, the Apaches took
a very large boulder,and carved a Rampant Horses Head on it, and placed above a trail.Whether or not it is still
there or has been defaced and obilterated I do not know. It was real,it was there,and it is a part of the LDM
Lore.

To others, Kino was a Renagade Priest, and buried a lot of treasure, the treasure is not in a cave, nor is it in a mine.
It is under a river, and will most likely never be recovered.