The Peralta Stone Maps, Real Maps to Lost Gold Mines or Cruel Hoax?

[somehiker]

Marius:

Only your boots can take you beyond assumptions.
And mine have gone many miles out there in those mountains.

Regards:SH.

 

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[markmar]

I believe the documents used as evidence in court where the forged documents Reavis had filed his land grant with, they had NO official corresponding documents in any archives anywhere. Reavis would have had a sweet deal since he was charging "rent" throughout Arizona. He got to greedy and decided to take on the Government hoping all his tampering in the archives would pay off. Funny how this all got mixed in with the legend.

Eric

I believe nobody would to malign the name of the King and the Viceroy of Spain in fraudulent records . For sure he ( Reavis ) would been in a big trouble . He would opened the Pandora's box .

In the post #1978 I quoted what the General Surveyor has admitted .

 

[markmar]

Marius:

Only your boots can take you beyond assumptions.
And mine have gone many miles out there in those mountains.

Regards:SH.

The assumtions were for the Cristobal's picture .

 

[somehiker]

Marius:

Cristobal's photo we do not have.
But the seven was not visible in Cristobal's photo. It was marked on Cristobal's map.
My photograph, from my camera, I do have.
And the same seven is on the stone map , which is not mentioned in the Salazar story. Nor is the massacre, which was said to have occurred in 1848, whereas the Salazar story claims the Peralta's final mining expedition and the survey took place during the winter/spring of 1853-54...5 years after the massacre but still a very dangerous time in the region.

Regards:SH.

 

[somehiker]

Eric

I believe nobody would to malign the name of the King and the Viceroy of Spain in fraudulent records . For sure he ( Reavis ) would been in a big trouble . He would opened the Pandora's box .

In the post #1978 I quoted what the General Surveyor has admitted .

But Reavis did exactly that.
Had a history of forging documents dating back to the Civil War.
And so he was in big trouble, and went to prison for it.

 

[johnmark29020]

I was asking a Mexican friend of mine about the peraltas and the stone maps. He said mexicans have two last names. If we new what both names were we could find docs in the archives.
Since you guys have done way more work on the family history that I.
I was wondering if anyone knew both names.

 

[deducer]

deducer

In contadiction with the :

"Fourth, That again admitting its legality, it is absolutely

impossible to establish its boundaries, the alleged grant never having been bounded or surveyed, and without identifiedboundaries it fails. "

In the next page is the Peralta document :

" Fourth. Statement of Peralta, dated 13th of May 1758,showing by metes and bounds the location of the land granted "
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You don't seem to understand that you are quoting from the fraudulent Reavis document that Royal Johnson is reprinting in order to refute everything in it.

The quote you are taking:

" Fourth. Statement of Peralta, dated 13th of May 1758,showing by metes and bounds the location of the land granted "

is from the fraudulent Reavis document, NOT from the Surveyor General's report.

 

[deducer]

Hello?
Okay now... Is better the debate about the Peralta land grant to stop here .

PS

But a last add :

The General Surveyor wrote in page 4 about the Peralta documents :

" All of which is fully and clearly set forth in original​

documents hereto annexed, marked "Exhibit A," with translation​

same, which original documents are from the government archives of the City of Mexico, and are made part of this petition. "

You can stop anytime you want to.

Again, What you are quoting is just Royal Johnson describing the nature of the Peralta land grant which he then proceeds to completely destroy in the next 90 pages of his report.

 

[sgtfda]

It all Greek to me!

 

[Somero]

It all Greek to me!

Sarge, I don't think we need to throw them into the mix

 

[sgtfda]

Too late the barn door was left open

 

[markmar]

You can stop anytime you want to.

Again, What you are quoting is just Royal Johnson describing the nature of the Peralta land grant which he then proceeds to completely destroy in the next 90 pages of his report.

He destroy with what ? With assumptions , with what is possible and what is not , with what is logical and what is not , with " I consider " and " seems to be " ?
Where are the assessments of the specialists ? The General Surveyor had all the knowledge ( graphology , antiquary , etc ) to estimate records and papers one century before his era ?
A good lawyer would reject all his " estimations " , but the land grant was big and the interests were big too .

I have not a horse in this race . I wanted only to express my opinion . For me was a PARODY .

 

[markmar]

somehiker

You stated how the 7 was on the map and not in the Cristobal' photo . To me the text says something else .



The square was indicated on the map and the number 7 appeared near the site where one of the photo had been made . What photo was made above the site ? The third . What appeared in the photo near the site ? The number 7 .
For the number 7 had not used the term " indicated on the map "

 

[somehiker]

somehiker

You stated how the 7 was on the map and not in the Cristobal' photo . To me the text says something else .

View attachment 1033355

The square was indicated on the map and the number 7 appeared near the site where one of the photo had been made . What photo was made above the site ? The third . What appeared in the photo near the site ? The number 7 .
For the number 7 had not used the term " indicated on the map "

Your comprehension is obviously very different than mine....[MEUS]
Perhaps due to the intricacies of the English language, which is not your native tongue.
I'm sure I would also have difficulties in understanding passages written in Greek.
In the account, Salazar is quite clear in his description of what was visible in the photos, that other than "El Sombrero"...Weavers Needle ?...and an outline of a skyline, little else was visible. The photos were too dark to make out much foreground detail. He is also clear in stating the place from which the first photo was taken, was from the summit of a mountain. That place was marked on the map with a small square. I think it safe to assume, partly due to my own familiarity with the mountains and knowledge of which mountain peaks afford a view of El Sombrero, that each of the three summits was marked with the same small square showing the spot from which each photo was taken. He is also quite clear in that the numeral 7 appeared near the site where one photo was taken....not IN the photo itself.
After all, if it had been visible in the photo, it's significance might have been clear.

 

[deducer]

He destroy with what ? With assumptions , with what is possible and what is not , with what is logical and what is not , with " I consider " and " seems to be " ?
Where are the assessments of the specialists ? The General Surveyor had all the knowledge ( graphology , antiquary , etc ) to estimate records and papers one century before his era ?
A good lawyer would reject all his " estimations " , but the land grant was big and the interests were big too .

I have not a horse in this race . I wanted only to express my opinion . For me was a PARODY .

Why don't you try reading the report itself?

Do yourself a favor and read affidavit II attached to the report, beginning on page 86 where he lists the MANY, MANY errors in the "Peralta land grant" and I will give just a FEW examples of that here:

Fr. Paver (Reavis misspelled as Paner) and the Bishop of NM, Tameron could not have given testimony to the effect that they had "no interest" in the concession because they were, by law, prohibited from taking up land.

"Por parte de Senor" is not correct Spanish, should be "Por Parte Del Senor"

"Fueron aprobodas" is not correct Spanish, should be "Que Fueron Aprobodas"

There is no such thing as "Fuero Tribunal" as labeled in the photo submitted.

"en el servicio del Rey" is proper Spanish but is not a phrase used by the Spanish Monarchy.

"I, the minister, put the great seal of state" is not found in any documents of state or cedulas of the kings of Spain up to 1800.

The seal of the king had not been cast and was not in existence in 1748, nor 1772 or 1776.

President Santa Ana is not the person to authenticate any document.. that would be the duty of the archive keeper, the secretary of state, and their signatures done with the appropriate seals.'

A bishop is addressed as "Su Senoria" not "Exmo."

There are just so many errors that Johnson gets exasperated at times, but he does have fun as when he said "apparently King Carlos III arose from the dead to give his signature," but my favorite is when he says "To retrograde 40 years is not as difficult a task as to make Ferdinand VI and Charles III and all the grandees and dons of Spain of the last century speak the cowboy Spanish of our day. Napoleon said it, and Reavis accomplished it, the word impossible is not in his dictionary!"

A good lawyer would have run away from Reavis.

 

[lgadbois]

Kesselrings think their interpretation of the Stone Cross is correct. They have mapped the area of the Peralta mines. Their pictures with GPS locations and the story of their search is interesting.

Finding the Peralta Treasures: Anatomy of a Treasure Hunt

 

[somehiker]

What would those with md or gpr unit experience say about this concept ?

While interesting, I found several parts of his story far fetched to say the least, although I have chosen not to say very much.

 

[johnmark29020]

Kesselrings think their interpretation of the Stone Cross is correct. They have mapped the area of the Peralta mines. Their pictures with GPS locations and the story of their search is interesting.

Finding the Peralta Treasures: Anatomy of a Treasure Hunt

Yes its was very interesting. One thing they mentioned was a dogtooth point rock. I saw such a rock in pinal county. Made me wonder.
Do you think their right.
If they are right. Let giving the site location may have opened the door for illegal mining. The impact on the area will be great.

 

[sgtfda]

Many a deep empty hole was dug after using that type equipment

 

[johnmark29020]

Many a deep empty hole was dug after using that type equipment

I believe it. One thing I keeped thinking while reading the article.
People were all over that area for years. One would think that the signs and markers mentioned would have been noticed. I did find their theory on how the maps work interesting.
Without giving anything away. Would you agree with their interpretation.