The Sue and Settle Racket

[Oakview2]

The "Sue And Settle" Racket - Forbes

 

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[Fullpan]

I like the part where Suckling says he'd rather have "campaigners" than scientists in his camp. So used-car salesman types, or motivators, or sensationalist
reporters are much more valuable than scientists. That's a main stumbling block for us - we are hog-tied by our insistence on truth.

 

[goldenIrishman]

I hope that the public is starting to wake up to this major piece of fraud. It's things like this that cost every person in this country. Like they said at the end of the article......

“Sue and Settle” is not how government should operate in this society.

 

[63bkpkr]

Does anyone have a large bucket I can puke in? Then we need to send it to these sue and settle groups. I WILL forward this one! Thank you O2!........................63bkpkr

 

[2cmorau]

thanks for posting great read

 

[GoldDoozah]

I like the part where Suckling says he'd rather have "campaigners" than scientists in his camp. So used-car salesman types, or motivators, or sensationalist
reporters are much more valuable than scientists. That's a main stumbling block for us - we are hog-tied by our insistence on truth.

Unfortunately, you don't really need scientists in your camp. There are always "scientists" you can pay to say pretty much whatever you want. Since real scientists will publish what they believe, it can take some significant digging to sort out the truth. The average Joe sees "scientists" publishing conflicting results and simply believes the side saying what he wants to hear.

The root of the problem is the quality of the average Joe. It is strange that our entire public education system is focused on teaching career skills, with little or no emphasis on teaching universal ethics, social/emotional development and proper parenting. If as a society you successfully teach your children to be good people and eventually good parents, the vast majority will become dependable, skillful professionals. It would also make them difficult to manipulate and control.

 

[huntsman53]

Just my thoughts but wouldn't this tactic also work if Prospecting Organizations, Logging Organizations, etc., etc. sued these Anti- "This and That" Organizations as well as the government agencies that they originally sued in the same manner? In other words, force the Anti- "This and That" Organizations to prove scientifically and by Studies what they are stating in the Law Suits that they file and force the government agencies to re-instate the original laws, regulations and/or mandates if the Anti- "This and That" Organizations are proven wrong. If these Anti- folks had to fork out millions upon millions to try to prove their' case but are unsuccessful , then their' coffers would dwindle very rapdily and may put a stop to these "Sue and Settle" cases!


Frank

 

[Hoser John]

Karuk Tribe perfect example as they SUE everybody for anythang-should rename'm The SUE TRIBE as they just picked up another $209,000 off the government last week. sic sic sic country-John

 

[mxer47]

We need a coalition of all the public lands use groups. They should include groups like the timber industry, off roaders, miners , hunters, and any other group under attack. There is strength in numbers, but only if we are all pointing in the and pulling in the same direction. The green groups fight us separately ( divide and destroy ). this land use coalition should single out green groups and destroy them with all kinds of law suits. We need to pick them off one by one. Enough defense. We need offense.

 

[wingmaster]

Maybe someone needs to sue the sue and settle group for loss of access to public lands.

 

[goldenIrishman]

Maybe someone needs to sue the sue and settle group for loss of access to public lands.

Yup... And let's throw in loss of public tax dollars as well! Make those thieves pay back every dime they ever won from the government! Oh, don't forget the interest on the funds as well!!!!!!

 

[fowledup]

What would have to be done is to sue the government as a countermeasure to the ecos lawsuits. Reason being sueing the eco groups wouldn't reverse a courts ruling based on the settlement actions of the government. In theory this would force the government to use real science to prove the legitimacy of their actions- in theory.

 

[Mad Machinist]

The main problem in this is the fact that even before the lawsuit proceeds, there has to be a hearing to decide whether or not you have standing in order to file the lawsuit. More often than not, it is dismissed.

And even when you have standing, as part of the "sue and settle" fiasco, is as part of the "settlement" there are often regulations put in place to satisfy the eco's. Si now you have to fight gobermint attorneys while facing government appointed judges.

This is not to discourage anyone. We, in the OHV world, have fought this fight and won some. I'll be in and out for the next few weeks due the new house. So PM if you need something. They show up in my email and I get alerts on my phone.

 

[fowledup]

My hope is that the government would be less likely to settle when there are counter suits waiting in the wings. If these suits are getting to the point of settling without opposition, then we aren't doing our part

 

[Clay Diggins]

My hope is that the government would be less likely to settle when there are counter suits waiting in the wings. If these suits are getting to the point of settling without opposition, then we aren't doing our part

It's even simpler than that fowledup. The courts have consistently found these "sweetheart deals" as they call them to be illegal and circumvention of legal process. Simply challenging the deal on that basis alone consistently wins. If no one challenges the deal the courts can't overturn them.

These are called sweetheart deals because the executive agencies, in particular the EPA, Forest Service and the Fish and Wildlife, set up these agreements to get around existing law and the process they must follow to implement new regulations. These particular agencies have become revolving door conduits between the greenie groups and the executive agencies. There is no due process when both parties to a suit are looking for the same outcome and arrange to make back room deals to circumvent the law. Courts in particular are really pissed about being used this way and will often find a way to sink these deals. Sometimes they just need someone to object to help them along.

Below is a link to a great example of how the courts are not only eager to stop this type of fraudulent settlement but if you read the background you will see that they also ruled that the Forest Service has no right to regulate mining.

Minard Run Oil Company v. United States Forest Service


There are more people, and laws, on our side than you imagine. This case was deep in eastern state weenie territory. The court not only ruled for miners rights but repeatedly shot down the underhanded dealing between the Forest Service and the greenies.

We can and do win against those who would like to shut down all mining. I for one would like to see more discussion of these winning cases and their implications for our future and less attention paid to the failed efforts of a few west coast recreational prospecting groups. We can learn what doesn't work from those failures but wouldn't it serve us better to learn what does work?

 

[huntsman53]

My hope is that the government would be less likely to settle when there are counter suits waiting in the wings. If these suits are getting to the point of settling without opposition, then we aren't doing our part

Very great points! If everytime the Anti's file a suits against a Government agencies, that counter-suits are filed to fight and counteract their suit and to keep the Government agencies from given into a Settlement, this might put a damper on the Sue and Settle Suits, especially if the Anti's lose quite a few of them. Hopefully with some losses by the Anti's, these Government agencies will not be so apt to give in and actually throw the burden of proof on to the Anti's instead.


Frank

 

[Mad Machinist]

Very great points! If everytime the Anti's file a suits against a Government agencies, that counter-suits are filed to fight and counteract their suit and to keep the Government agencies from given into a Settlement, this might put a damper on the Sue and Settle Suits, especially if the Anti's lose quite a few of them. Hopefully with some losses by the Anti's, these Government agencies will not be so apt to give in and actually throw the burden of proof on to the Anti's instead.


Frank

And one thing I can tell you as a budding Environmental scientist, is this. 99% of what is used as evidence is based on speculation. There is only one species extinction that can be directly blamed on man, And the is the Xerces Butterfly. The kicker on the Xerces butterfly is the construction of San Francisco is what killed them off.

What I am seeing right now, is the fact that the eco's are about to go the way of the dodo. People are wising up and not liking what they are seeing. So they are trying to get everything they can right now. Another thing to remember, is anything they do right now, can be undone once we get the right people in office.