Thomas Jefferson Beale - The Mystery Identity

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bigscoop

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“Thomas J. Beale”.....so for entertainment purposes let's speculate on some possibilities regarding this name.

In Jackson Ward, Richmond Virginia, we have a man of color named Thomas J. Beale, born in 1827 by best record of this man. In these same records we learn that his parents are unknown.

From research we learn that it was quite common for free men of color to adopt names and for a variety of reasons, these selections being entirely up to the individual. So let us assume that this Thomas J. Beale had done just that.

From the Hart papers we learn that for some unknown reason they have determined Thomas J. Beale to be Thomas Jefferson Beale. Thomas Jefferson, as we all know, was the father of DOI and a highly respected man in the region and also around the world. Not a bad selection for a namesake if one had his choice. Beale, on the other hand, could have arrived from many different possible sources. So in this is it not impossible that this Thomas J. Beale, this man of color, may have chosen his recognized name, or that perhaps, his unknown parents had chosen if for him?

We know in the Beale papers that Thomas Beale is described as being dark and swarthy, as if much exposure to the sun. If Thomas J. Beale had been a black man of lighter color then it is also possible that he wore his hair longer then what was the style at the time, which once again begs the question, who were this Thomas J. Beale's parents? As is often consistent with slaves and many free men of color his parents are listed as unknown. And we do know that many slave owners fathered children through their slaves. So is this Thomas J. Beale possibly a product of any of these circumstances, perhaps all of them?

Born in 1872/28 he might also fit quite nicely in the author's described reasons for Morriss having selected him as he would have only been about 35 at the time, still young enough in his years to be charged with the task. Or perhaps, it was this Beale who had actually sought out Morriss as the setting up of interviews might suggest? Odd that these interviews, according to the author, are then interrupted due to important business affairs in Richmond, the very city where we find Thomas J. Beale just one year prior to the publication. Again and again the questions are begged, who were this Thomas J. Beale's parents and is it possible that he held a certain amount of insight into the events detailed in the Beale papers? Did he know Ward? Did he know Morriss? Did he, or his parents, have some unknown association with the names Jefferson or Beale, Richmond only being 90-100 miles to the east? How did the Harts arrive at the name, Thomas Jefferson Beale? All good questions that are worth exploring.
 

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Rebel - KGC

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Jun 15, 2007
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“Thomas J. Beale”.....so for entertainment purposes let's speculate on some possibilities regarding this name.

In Jackson Ward, Richmond Virginia, we have a man of color named Thomas J. Beale, born in 1827 by best record of this man. In these same records we learn that his parents are unknown.

From research we learn that it was quite common for free men of color to adopt names and for a variety of reasons, these selections being entirely up to the individual. So let us assume that this Thomas J. Beale had done just that.

From the Hart papers we learn that for some unknown reason they have determined Thomas J. Beale to be Thomas Jefferson Beale. Thomas Jefferson, as we all know, was the father of DOI and a highly respected man in the region and also around the world. Not a bad selection for a namesake if one had his choice. Beale, on the other hand, could have arrived from many different possible sources. So in this is it not impossible that this Thomas J. Beale, this man of color, may have chosen his recognized name, or that perhaps, his unknown parents had chosen if for him?

We know in the Beale papers that Thomas Beale is described as being dark and swarthy, as if much exposure to the sun. If Thomas J. Beale had been a black man of lighter color then it is also possible that he wore his hair longer then what was the style at the time, which once again begs the question, who were this Thomas J. Beale's parents? As is often consistent with slaves and many free men of color his parents are listed as unknown. And we do know that many slave owners fathered children through their slaves. So is this Thomas J. Beale possibly a product of any of these circumstances, perhaps all of them?

Born in 1872/28 he might also fit quite nicely in the author's described reasons for Morriss having selected him as he would have only been about 35 at the time, still young enough in his years to be charged with the task. Or perhaps, it was this Beale who had actually sought out Morriss as the setting up of interviews might suggest? Odd that these interviews, according to the author, are then interrupted due to important business affairs in Richmond, the very city where we find Thomas J. Beale just one year prior to the publication. Again and again the questions are begged, who were this Thomas J. Beale's parents and is it possible that he held a certain amount of insight into the events detailed in the Beale papers? Did he know Ward? Did he know Morriss? Did he, or his parents, have some unknown association with the names Jefferson or Beale, Richmond only being 90-100 miles to the east? How did the Harts arrive at the name, Thomas Jefferson Beale? All good questions that are worth exploring.
Indeed, they ARE!
 

Rebel - KGC

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Look at Thomas Beale, then "TJB"... (Beale PAPERS Pamphlet). COULD be Thomas Jefferson's son by Sally Heming; Thomas Jefferson's son... BEVERLY; (TJB). "Thomas Beale" was just a "local" name, used for the BPP. :dontknow: BEVERLY; DOB: 4/1/1798, YOD: 1910 in Kansas. ??? !!! WHEW!
 

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Rebel - KGC

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MORE R & I: IF; "TJB" was Thomas Jefferson's BEVERLY... Beverly lived in WHITE SOCIETY in DC; fought in the CONFEDERATE WAR, with the YANKS (Ohio 73rd OVI from Chillocothe, An ALL WHITE fighting Unit)! Beverly died in Kansas, 1910... he was OLD! THAT can't be correct... SOMEONE (not me), must have "confused" BEVERLY Hemings with William Beverly Hemings... who is the one that died in 1910. STILL a MYSTERY!
 

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Rebel - KGC

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NOW! For folks interested in Civil War HISTORY... Ohio 73rd OVI is Ohio Volunteer Infantry; 73rd Ohio Volunteer Infantry. THAT info MAY be the GOLD that ppl wanted to bury in a VAULT, 6' down... like a BURIAL SITE! TJ's son fought for the YANKS! The SILVER, could be SALLY HEMINGS... the JEWELRY could be...? In 1863, CSA lost Thomas "Stonewall" Jackson, and the body left Lynchburg, Va. at the 9th Street Bridge (Arch) on the CANAL, into a PACKET BOAT... THE MARSHALL, onto the James River; going NORTH to Lexington, Va. (VMI). AND! RM of the BPP ALSO died in 1863. Thomas Jefferson... Thomas Jackson; hmmm...
 

ECS

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It seems Bigscoop is bundling the Beale Papers story into a package that involves Richmond Alderman, Thomas J Beale, and the development of that city's Jackson Ward.
 

Rebel - KGC

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It seems Bigscoop is bundling the Beale Papers story into a package that involves Richmond Alderman, Thomas J Beale, and the development of that city's Jackson Ward.
Well, some "BRIT" guy/gal believes 'tis so... ya know.
 

O

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“Thomas J. Beale”.....so for entertainment purposes let's speculate on some possibilities regarding this name.

In Jackson Ward, Richmond Virginia, we have a man of color named Thomas J. Beale, born in 1827 by best record of this man. In these same records we learn that his parents are unknown.

From research we learn that it was quite common for free men of color to adopt names and for a variety of reasons, these selections being entirely up to the individual. So let us assume that this Thomas J. Beale had done just that.

From the Hart papers we learn that for some unknown reason they have determined Thomas J. Beale to be Thomas Jefferson Beale. Thomas Jefferson, as we all know, was the father of DOI and a highly respected man in the region and also around the world. Not a bad selection for a namesake if one had his choice. Beale, on the other hand, could have arrived from many different possible sources. So in this is it not impossible that this Thomas J. Beale, this man of color, may have chosen his recognized name, or that perhaps, his unknown parents had chosen if for him?

We know in the Beale papers that Thomas Beale is described as being dark and swarthy, as if much exposure to the sun. If Thomas J. Beale had been a black man of lighter color then it is also possible that he wore his hair longer then what was the style at the time, which once again begs the question, who were this Thomas J. Beale's parents? As is often consistent with slaves and many free men of color his parents are listed as unknown. And we do know that many slave owners fathered children through their slaves. So is this Thomas J. Beale possibly a product of any of these circumstances, perhaps all of them?

Born in 1872/28 he might also fit quite nicely in the author's described reasons for Morriss having selected him as he would have only been about 35 at the time, still young enough in his years to be charged with the task. Or perhaps, it was this Beale who had actually sought out Morriss as the setting up of interviews might suggest? Odd that these interviews, according to the author, are then interrupted due to important business affairs in Richmond, the very city where we find Thomas J. Beale just one year prior to the publication. Again and again the questions are begged, who were this Thomas J. Beale's parents and is it possible that he held a certain amount of insight into the events detailed in the Beale papers? Did he know Ward? Did he know Morriss? Did he, or his parents, have some unknown association with the names Jefferson or Beale, Richmond only being 90-100 miles to the east? How did the Harts arrive at the name, Thomas Jefferson Beale? All good questions that are worth exploring.

Here's a thought. What about Chief Justice John Marshall having an illegitimate son, maybe by a slave woman (he owned slaves), or perhaps by a woman of another nationality. It is said of John Marshall: "From a young age, he was noted for his good humor and black eyes, which were 'strong and penetrating, beaming with intelligence and good nature.'"
It was said of TJB: "In person, he was about six feet in height, with jet black eyes and hair of the same color, worn longer than was the style at that time."
Black eyes is not something you see everyday. Both Chief Justice John Marshall and TJB are tied into the Beale story, both having visited the inn of Robert Morriss. You have to wonder how TJB come to know of Robert Morriss.
And another link is, Chief Justice John Marshall's brother, James, married a 1st cousin of Robert Morriss, Hester Morris. Hester was a daughter of Robert Morris, the signer of the DOI. Lot's of ties, lot's of black eyes.
:laughing7:
 

TN_Guest1523

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“Thomas J. Beale”.....so for entertainment purposes let's speculate on some possibilities regarding this name.

In Jackson Ward, Richmond Virginia, we have a man of color named Thomas J. Beale, born in 1827 by best record of this man. In these same records we learn that his parents are unknown.

From research we learn that it was quite common for free men of color to adopt names and for a variety of reasons, these selections being entirely up to the individual. So let us assume that this Thomas J. Beale had done just that.

From the Hart papers we learn that for some unknown reason they have determined Thomas J. Beale to be Thomas Jefferson Beale. Thomas Jefferson, as we all know, was the father of DOI and a highly respected man in the region and also around the world. Not a bad selection for a namesake if one had his choice. Beale, on the other hand, could have arrived from many different possible sources. So in this is it not impossible that this Thomas J. Beale, this man of color, may have chosen his recognized name, or that perhaps, his unknown parents had chosen if for him?

We know in the Beale papers that Thomas Beale is described as being dark and swarthy, as if much exposure to the sun. If Thomas J. Beale had been a black man of lighter color then it is also possible that he wore his hair longer then what was the style at the time, which once again begs the question, who were this Thomas J. Beale's parents? As is often consistent with slaves and many free men of color his parents are listed as unknown. And we do know that many slave owners fathered children through their slaves. So is this Thomas J. Beale possibly a product of any of these circumstances, perhaps all of them?

Born in 1872/28 he might also fit quite nicely in the author's described reasons for Morriss having selected him as he would have only been about 35 at the time, still young enough in his years to be charged with the task. Or perhaps, it was this Beale who had actually sought out Morriss as the setting up of interviews might suggest? Odd that these interviews, according to the author, are then interrupted due to important business affairs in Richmond, the very city where we find Thomas J. Beale just one year prior to the publication. Again and again the questions are begged, who were this Thomas J. Beale's parents and is it possible that he held a certain amount of insight into the events detailed in the Beale papers? Did he know Ward? Did he know Morriss? Did he, or his parents, have some unknown association with the names Jefferson or Beale, Richmond only being 90-100 miles to the east? How did the Harts arrive at the name, Thomas Jefferson Beale? All good questions that are worth exploring.

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ECS

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Alderman Thomas J Beale of Jackson Ward Richmond, born 1827, a freeman of color...
While the Alderman's parents are unknown, his wife,Sophia Pemberton, whom he married Oct , 1851, are known- George Washington Pemberton and Elizabeth D Rosher Pemberton, of Richmond City, Virginia.
 

TN_Guest1523

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The son of Charles William Beale of Botetourt county, Thomas J Beale, born in 1826, moved with his family to Mo, married, then moved on to California where he died in 1884.
Thomas J Beale (1826 - 1884) - Find A Grave Memorial

I see, interesting that we have now moved our parameter of the actual dates for the Mr Beale of the Papers so far out that it has become possible to include all that bare the name in the 19th century . This significant process seems to be moving backwards, a grasping of straw .
 

ECS

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It just shows that Thomas Beale was not an uncommon name during the time period discussed.
The was another Thomas Beale during the same period that was involved with large amounts of capital, and was an associate of Charles Darwin's mentor.
Is that the reason why you constantly invoke Darwin's name on these threads?
 

TN_Guest1523

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It just shows that Thomas Beale was not an uncommon name during the time period discussed.
The was another Thomas Beale during the same period that was involved with large amounts of capital, and was an associate of Charles Darwin's mentor.
Is that the reason why you constantly invoke Darwin's name on these threads?

Darwin was a nut-job that could not understand that there were once different species unrelated to each other . Not unlike some that think a Beale that existed outside the parameters of the Beale Papers .
 

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