Thoughts on freq.

[Texas Looter]

Question for you guys that use the 4hkz freq. to check targets. I understand what you are doing but to set up two identical programs one using 12 or 18 and the other using 4 can only work using vdi numbers only. If I am wrong please enlighten me.

If you are checking a target that is at a depth that will not provide a Id will you still not get a high tone?

Seems to me that the 4hkz program would need the break points changed and the tones reversed so that the high tones in the 12/18 kHz produce a lower tone --- different tone---in the 4 kHz program.

I would assume that you would need to be using at least 3 tones for it to work.

Any thoughts will be appreciated.
Jpiddle

 

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[msviking]

Good question as this is a critical thing to know how to do in the areas I hunt that are littered with bottle caps. My 4 kHz program is not centered around watching the VDI but rather the tones. The larger gap in 4 khz between trash and coins allows for a different tone setup. In the 4khz program my mid tones (questionable target, bottle cap tone) ends at a 71 VDI. This puts 90% of the bottle caps in a low tone. In this setting if I still get a high tone (72+ VDI in 4 kHz) its 90% a coin. This will cause you to lose modern pennies, but I am able to distinguish most pennies from bottle caps by the tapering sound as the coil goes over the target bottle caps tend to "chop" or abruptly end. To not miss nickels (if you desire this) you need to create a notch in the lower VDIs for nickels.

I have spent hours in my test garden tweaking my bottle top settings as well as training my ear for their sound, it has taken time but bottle caps do not overwhelm me like they first did.

The system is not perfect but it is a valuable tool. It will allow you to skip by over 50% of the bottle caps without worry.

Feel free to ask more questions or expound on this topic.

HH
Robert

 

[pescadore]

I used the same high tone setup with each frequency (identical target for target) and yes you are right the system is VDI dependent. The purpose of the identical programs were not to necessarily test target that were beyond the reliability of the VDI but to keep from digging so many of those dang bottle caps. If the target was deep enough to be beyond the reliability of the VDI then of course the only way to know for sure is to dig it. The usual bottle caps that I encountered would usually ID as a coin and I would take note of the VDI number in 12Khz and if in switching to 4Khz the number stayed the same or was higher then the target was always in my experience junk. If the target VDI dropped in 4Khz then I would dig it. I got a good enough VDI on a 10 inch silver quarter to dig it after the target was lost by a V3i and a CTX. I am only using this example to say that in 4Khz, I found the VDI to be pretty reliable and reasonable depth not to say that the Deus is as deep a detector as the CTX or the V3i (which I don't believe). When I dug the quarter there was also junk in the hole that I believe was masking the coin with the other detectors.

 

[Bart@Big Boys Hobbies]

My 4 kHz program is not centered around watching the VDI but rather the tones. t

This is key!

Also remember standing over a target trying this and that is often wasting your time. If you have ANY question on the target just dig it and move on. Only way to know for sure.

I often get hung up on over analyzing a target and when it is all said and done I spent 2-3 times more time than I would have if I just dug it. Maybe someday I will learn... lol

 

[msviking]

To continue the discussion, I have listed below the VDIs for a variety of objects and their respective VDIs at the 3 different frequencies. To Pescadore's point of rising VDIs on bottle caps, I have not seen that, but it seems every trip out I find a new variety of bottle caps. While I rely more on tones with the Deus I do keep a laminated card of the data below to help me keep stratight the VDIs at the different frequencies. On the laminated cards I color code the different tone ranges as well as list the other settings (iron volume, silencer etc..) This helps me a lot. I would post a picture of the cards if I knew how to show an Excel sheet on the forum.

Excuse the column alignment as when I paste in the data it is not keeping the alignment

4k 8k 12k 18k
foil 26.5 29 30 34
nickel 37 46.5 55 64
pull tab small 38 48 56 66
can slaw 38.5 47 59.5 66
pull tab w/tail 41 51 61 70
Indian 45 58 78 84
Pull tab large 50 64 73 81
zinc Penny 58 73 79 85
screw cap 58 73 81 86
dime 73 83 87 91.5
Indian (copper) 74 83 88 91
Wheat Penny 74 83 88 91
silver dime 75 85 88.5 91.5
silver quarter 82 88.5 91.5 94
quarter 82 89 91.5 94
steel bottle cap 83 86 88 90
clad half 87 92 94.5 95
silver half 89 93 94.5 96
beer cap 94 90 92 92

HH & learning!
Robert

 

[msviking]

Here is a pic of one of the cards, the "active" frequency for the program is highlighted. This one is my 4 khz adjacent program for Andy's HP coin program.

 

[pescadore]

To continue the discussion, I have listed below the VDIs for a variety of objects and their respective VDIs at the 3 different frequencies. To Pescadore's point of rising VDIs on bottle caps, I have not seen that, but it seems every trip out I find a new variety of bottle caps. While I rely more on tones with the Deus I do keep a laminated card of the data below to help me keep stratight the VDIs at the different frequencies. On the laminated cards I color code the different tone ranges as well as list the other settings (iron volume, silencer etc..) This helps me a lot. I would post a picture of the cards if I knew how to show an Excel sheet on the forum. Excuse the column alignment as when I paste in the data it is not keeping the alignment 4k 8k 12k 18k foil 26.5 29 30 34 nickel 37 46.5 55 64 pull tab small 38 48 56 66 can slaw 38.5 47 59.5 66 pull tab w/tail 41 51 61 70 Indian 45 58 78 84 Pull tab large 50 64 73 81 zinc Penny 58 73 79 85 screw cap 58 73 81 86 dime 73 83 87 91.5 Indian (copper) 74 83 88 91 Wheat Penny 74 83 88 91 silver dime 75 85 88.5 91.5 silver quarter 82 88.5 91.5 94 quarter 82 89 91.5 94 steel bottle cap 83 86 88 90 clad half 87 92 94.5 95 silver half 89 93 94.5 96 beer cap 94 90 92 92 HH & learning! Robert

I assure you that I didn't originate the system I used and it is used by many other Deus users. I was not referring to air test VDI #s but those pesky rusted bottle caps in the field. I have tested and had other Deus users test this method and although it is not perfect as far as not ever digging a bottlecap, it is very effective. What Bart says though is very true ... unless you dig, you will never know.

Sent from my iPad using TreasureNet

 

[msviking]

I assure you that I didn't originate the system I used and it is used by many other Deus users. I was not referring to air test VDI #s but those pesky rusted bottle caps in the field. I have tested and had other Deus users test this method and although it is not perfect as far as not ever digging a bottlecap, it is very effective. What Bart says though is very true ... unless you dig, you will never know.

Sent from my iPad using TreasureNet

I meant nothing even remotely disparaging or to cast doubt on your system, just pushing the dialogue and the learning experience for us all. I have not seen the rising VDIs, but I am new to the Deus. All information is good information.

I also strongly agree on the digging aspect. Some sites I hunt have so few bottle caps that I will dig all close signals, a few are so littered with caps that I have to be able to discriminate out some portion of them or I would have one giant hole!

HH
Robert

 

[pescadore]

I meant nothing even remotely disparaging or to cast doubt on your system, just pushing the dialogue and the learning experience for us all. I have not seen the rising VDIs, but I am new to the Deus. All information is good information.

I also strongly agree on the digging aspect. Some sites I hunt have so few bottle caps that I will dig all close signals, a few are so littered with caps that I have to be able to discriminate out some portion of them or I would have one giant hole!

HH
Robert

No offense taken Robert just letting you know that this method is used by others. I also had a laminated card zip tied to my Deus with the VDI's for each frequency. I hunted most of the time in 12Khz so knew those pretty good and some 4Khz numbers but if I switched to 8 or 18, I had to cheat. I guess it's just the price of getting old. The Deus is a great little machine and a breeze to swing. You will find lots of good stuff with it !!! I sold mine recently when I thought I was going to have to give up detecting due to Rheumatoid Arthritis and possible neck surgery. No surgery for now and traded some stuff for a CZ5. It was just too hard to have a couple of thousand dollars tied up in MDing equipment when I needed the money for my family and I wasn't able to use it very often. HH
Pesc

 

[Bart@Big Boys Hobbies]

Lots of good info in this thread. This helps everyone!