Thunderbird Effigy...Real or Myth?

[romeo-1]

I was hoping to get some feedback as to the reality of knapped flint thunderbird effigies. Has anyone ever seen one or even found one or are they a myth. Thanks.

 

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[Cannonman17]

I've seen more than I can count but I've never seen an authentic one, not saying they aren't out there.... just that most (all) I have seen were fake. I did see one that at a quick glance looked to be the real deal but when I picked it up I realized it was actually slightly damaged winged drill, not an effigy. I hope somebody here has actually found one, I would love to see one!

 

[lostlake88]

Myth, at least in North America.

 

[Airborne80]

Where can i see a picture of what you are refering to? I am brand new at this and you have me very curious. I just posted this pic in the forum and am hoping that somone can help me identify it. It looks like it may be a bird of somekind. Any thoughts?

 

[speedy]

I am a long time artifact collector from North Dakota and I have found two Thunder Bird effigys. Both are made out of shell. Yes, they do exist.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

I am a long time artifact collector from North Dakota and I have found two Thunder Bird effigys. Both are made out of shell. Yes, they do exist.

Let's see pictures then.

There has never been one found in association with a grave or a Mound. You would think that if they had some kind special meaning, which most people who have them think they do, then one would have been found in association with a Mound or grave. I have a book from 1897 that has a whole chapter devoted to these types of items being considered fakes even back then.

 

[tmodel]

Airborne!! i can see a bird shape in your rock but would have to have it in my hand to be sure if mother nature or man made. what they are talking about is a piece shapped like looking up at a large bird flying over with it's beak pointed over it's shoulder. i have never heard of one made of flint or any other stone being found for sure. now out of shell may be a defferent story not sure. Terry

 

[coteau]

Speedy, as you know you have a very special artifact!

I think the original question was if there are any authentic "flint" thunderbirds...

Shell and more rarely bone thunderbird effigies are well documented in the Northern Plains and are unique to the area. They are very rare though, and 99% of them come from prehistoric/ancestral Mandan sites which date to around AD 1000-1500. However, there was one thunderbird effigy found in a Besant/Sonota burial mound (Swift Bird mound site).

This map needs to be updated with other undocumented finds....

 

[MikE-Trac]

Where can i see a picture of what you are refering to? I am brand new at this and you have me very curious. I just posted this pic in the forum and am hoping that somone can help me identify it. It looks like it may be a bird of somekind. Any thoughts?

those are definitely the frozen chicken nuggets that are shaped like farm animals

 

[coteau]

There are some flaked and ground "flint" birds on page 2 in the link:

http://lithiccastinglab.com/gallery-pages/2007marchlizardeffigiespage1.htm

 

[larson1951]

show a picture please speedy

 

[d2]

I have seen one that was found at a site here in Arkansas not far from my house. It was found by a very close friend on a house site. I will try and get a picture but he doesnt live close. It was made from flint and fairly small larger than a quarter but smaller than a 50 cent piece. No doubt what it was either...d2

 

[speedy]

Believe it or not! (Hope I got the right scan)

 

[SCdigger]

OK...here ya' go...

Alright, I know this is an old thread, but I had not seen it until someone revived it recently...

Not sure that posting this will create the same kind of buzz and controversy as it did when I first found it about 5 years ago as I posted it on several artifact forums.

Here's what I DO know. Where I found it. The site is normally under about 10 feet of water, but because of low water levels, the site was visible. It's within a about 1/4-1/2 mile of a MAJOR Native American village (now under water). I know the other artifacts I found with it that day. And it simply is not a spot, in my humble opinion, where someone would salt it. And it certainly appears to have aged patina vs a fresh new knapp.

I can tell you. I have had a number of experts look at it. One, in particular, who is WELL respected in the field feels that it is authentic, but he would NOT personally paper it simply because he was not going to put his name on something that "supposedly" does not appear in the history record. So be it.

I have also looked at EVERY eagle/thunderbird effigy I can come across, and everyone is done in a much more clear distinct style and design from what I have. I know where I found it, and the context in which I found it, and NOBODY can tell me that it's not authentic.

OK, here are the pics, I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions...for the record, I've been hunting Native American artifacts for about 36 years.

And here are all of the other items found that day in the same spot...

 

[JOHUNT]

So how long did it take you to knap it? lol! Just kidding. It is very cool, whatever it is!

 

[coteau]

Speedy,
Your thunderbird is very similar to others from the archaeological record.

 

[Steve Ia]

I found what I call an eagle effigy years ago. Its one of the few that I've seen that I believe to be real. 99.99% of the ones I have seen are fake. So I don't think they are myth, but real ones are pretty scarce also. I still have it, but not sure how to post a picture on here. May be able to get help from a friend to post it.

 

[tmodel]

Steve!! please do get the photo posted ilove to see the ones that the person showing is the and is as sure it is as i could be in his place that it was not planted. Terry

 

[Steve from Iowa]

Here's Steve IA's effigy.

 

[Muddy Treats]

I'm glad i came on here...just today i was asked to sell these Indian artifacts online...they e-mailed me these photos of them, i had no idea what the Thunderbird Effigy was until i came on here. I am told that these two artifacts were found together here in West Virginia. Is the other one a hyde scraper? What do you all think about these?