Titanic is deteriorating

[Bum Luck]

Just a couple of the links out there:

BBC
The first people to dive down to the Titanic in nearly 15 years say some of the wreck is deteriorating rapidly.


ABC
First manned Titanic expedition in 14 years reveals 'shocking' deterioration

Lori Johnson, one of the scientists of the expedition, said the rate of deterioration will speed up as natural types of bacteria work "symbiotically" to eat away the iron and sulphur.

"The future of the wreck is going to continue to deteriorate over time," Johnson said in a statement Wednesday. "It's a natural process."


The most famous shipwreck of all time is well on its way to collapsing in a cloud of dust into the seafloor, nothing left to see. I think those of us that dive on wrecks are somewhat familiar with the process, although it certainly varies with the materials and location of the wrecks.

The sad part to me is the loss of the experience that not only us, but future generations would be able to appreciate and learn from if there was some sort of rational plan and process other than the "hands off - it's mine" and "let it lay on the ocean floor as a cultural resource" of assorted governments and archaeologists while they do little or nothing but keep them from the rest of humanity that ultimately and in a larger sense those wrecks surely belong to.

Cultural Resource - bah! Once it's been digested and reduced to powder by iron-eating bacteria, it's gone. As in Forever.

I understand the reasoning behind considering them grave sites, and they are of course, but so are cemeteries in Europe that recycle graveyards and tombs to accommodate new arrivals. Surely we can keep some things for us to see and touch and have in the future for our human family? Extraodinary things that let us appreciate what has gone before.

Where would humanity be without the treasures we recovered from the Atocha, the 1715 wrecks, the Vasa, the Roskilde Viking Ship Museum, the Antikythera wreck, and many others?

This is not an argument for an all-the-same plan, because the rates of decay aren't the same all over.

But - the salvors that are working the 1715 wrecks are bringing up things like this for us to appreciate:



We can preserve and display them, or turn our backs on them forever. Which will it be?

 

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[Salvor6]

I thought archaeologists specialize in digging up graves.

 

[Madmox]

Just a couple of the links out there:

BBC
The first people to dive down to the Titanic in nearly 15 years say some of the wreck is deteriorating rapidly.
View attachment 1745618

ABC
First manned Titanic expedition in 14 years reveals 'shocking' deterioration

Lori Johnson, one of the scientists of the expedition, said the rate of deterioration will speed up as natural types of bacteria work "symbiotically" to eat away the iron and sulphur.

"The future of the wreck is going to continue to deteriorate over time," Johnson said in a statement Wednesday. "It's a natural process."


The most famous shipwreck of all time is well on its way to collapsing in a cloud of dust into the seafloor, nothing left to see. I think those of us that dive on wrecks are somewhat familiar with the process, although it certainly varies with the materials and location of the wrecks.

The sad part to me is the loss of the experience that not only us, but future generations would be able to appreciate and learn from if there was some sort of rational plan and process other than the "hands off - it's mine" and "let it lay on the ocean floor as a cultural resource" of assorted governments and archaeologists while they do little or nothing but keep them from the rest of humanity that ultimately and in a larger sense those wrecks surely belong to.

Cultural Resource - bah! Once it's been digested and reduced to powder by iron-eating bacteria, it's gone. As in Forever.

I understand the reasoning behind considering them grave sites, and they are of course, but so are cemeteries in Europe that recycle graveyards and tombs to accommodate new arrivals. Surely we can keep some things for us to see and touch and have in the future for our human family? Extraodinary things that let us appreciate what has gone before.

Where would humanity be without the treasures we recovered from the Atocha, the 1715 wrecks, the Vasa, the Roskilde Viking Ship Museum, the Antikythera wreck, and many others?

This is not an argument for an all-the-same plan, because the rates of decay aren't the same all over.

But - the salvors that are working the 1715 wrecks are bringing up things like this for us to appreciate:

View attachment 1745623

We can preserve and display them, or turn our backs on them forever. Which will it be?

Titanic is almost 13k feet underwater. Almost no one will ever have to opportunity to see titanic even if it was perfectly preserved. The artifacts are inaccessible to any but a few submersibles. The economics don’t really work for salvage and what do we truly stand to learn in our society from the wreck artifacts that we don’t already know? The logistics would be a nightmare. Some artifacts have been recovered and can be seen. There was a ton of photography done of the wreck and artifacts. The degradation of the wreck is natural and inevitable. The iron will dissolve as will some artifacts, some artifacts, such as the China and other parts will be there for 1000s of years. I, personally think we should just let it lie. Sure it was a catastrophic wreck, one of the worst in the last 100 odd years. But in the scheme of human history, it will not be the first nor the last to sink or the last to claim many human lives. It just is. Let it go back from whence it came. Put those resources to finding another wreck, one that we haven’t seen and documented. Not everything needs to be saved and displayed for posterity.

 

[Madmox]

Titanic is almost 13k feet underwater. Almost no one will ever have to opportunity to see titanic even if it was perfectly preserved. The artifacts are inaccessible to any but a few submersibles. The economics don’t really work for salvage and what do we truly stand to learn in our society from the wreck artifacts that we don’t already know? The logistics would be a nightmare. Some artifacts have been recovered and can be seen. There was a ton of photography done of the wreck and artifacts. The degradation of the wreck is natural and inevitable. The iron will dissolve as will some artifacts, some artifacts, such as the China and other parts will be there for 1000s of years. I, personally think we should just let it lie. Sure it was a catastrophic wreck, one of the worst in the last 100 odd years. But in the scheme of human history, it will not be the first nor the last to sink or the last to claim many human lives. It just is. Let it go back from whence it came. Put those resources to finding another wreck, one that we haven’t seen and documented. Not everything needs to be saved and displayed for posterity.

A big salvage ship can cost more than 35k dollars a day to operate. The explorers and scientists did 5 dives in 8 days. Let’s say it cost them a quarter of a million dollars to make those 5 dives not including the costs there and back. Alvin could has a payload of 1500 lbs including a crew of 4. So you could POTENTIALLY haul a few hundred lbs of stuff back at a time. Let the old girl sleep.

 

[Alexandre]

It ain't getting any newer, I fail to see where the novelty is, here...

 

[Snap on Man]

I lived 44 years in Wisconsin and Illinois. I had some really great cars deteriorate from the salt. What's new here?

 

[Kray Gelder]

Shocking? No. The "news" organizations seem to use more and more emotional terms. It is iron, and it is rotting away. The Titanic was a tragic, stupid mistake, committed by over confident, incautious people. It is a grave site, as are thousands of shipwrecks, it's inaccessible, and too deep to even mark with a memorial buoy. So, IMO, mark it on the charts, remove your hat when passing, and salvage the shallow, valuable stuff.

 

[enrada]

In an Archaeology Dictionary

The meaning of "insitu" is

FOR JOB SECURITY

 

[tinpan]

Hi , Any reason to get their hands on something and fill their own pockets TP

 

[capt dom]

Who actually gives a flying F____

 

[Bum Luck]

Who actually gives a flying F____

I do, that's why I posted it.

And I thought others might too.

 

[gwcracker]

Greedy bunch wanting to “save history”... because of its monetary enrichment to them.

Let White Star Lines or Lloyds decide what happens with it..

g

 

[Bum Luck]

The most famous shipwreck of all time is well on its way to collapsing in a cloud of dust into the seafloor, nothing left to see. I think those of us that dive on wrecks are somewhat familiar with the process, although it certainly varies with the materials and location of the wrecks.

The sad part to me is the loss of the experience that not only us, but future generations would be able to appreciate and learn from if there was some sort of rational plan and process other than the "hands off - it's mine" and "let it lay on the ocean floor as a cultural resource" of assorted governments and archaeologists while they do little or nothing but keep them from the rest of humanity that ultimately and in a larger sense those wrecks surely belong to.

Cultural Resource - bah! Once it's been digested and reduced to powder by iron-eating bacteria, it's gone. As in Forever.

I understand the reasoning behind considering them grave sites, and they are of course, but so are cemeteries in Europe that recycle graveyards and tombs to accommodate new arrivals. Surely we can keep some things for us to see and touch and have in the future for our human family? Extraordinary things that let us appreciate what has gone before.

Where would humanity be without the treasures we recovered from the Atocha, the 1715 wrecks, the Vasa, the Roskilde Viking Ship Museum, the Antikythera wreck, and many others?

This is not an argument for an all-the-same plan, because the rates of decay aren't the same all over.

We can preserve and display them, or turn our backs on them forever. Which will it be?

Thanks for the "likes".

I probably should have been clearer, but I did hope to provide for comments. Thanks everyone.

My point is that no 2 wrecks are the same. Some, as a recent return to the Bismarck stated, are in remarkably good shape. Others, like the Titanic and Andrea Doria, are deteriorating rapidly. The Doria, so much that it's killed many divers that have gone down to her. Is it wrong to salvage some objects from her? One find was a suitcase that was brought up and had a locket inside that was traceable. What a great story, that would otherwise never existed. I know no one made any money on bringing up the suitcase, but that's not always what it's all about.

I've been to a lot of wrecks on the Great Lakes, and many divers have brought up artifacts through the years. Most have learned that those that end up in the garage get thrown out eventually. Something with real historical value (separate from monetary value) end up in museums where they can be enjoyed by all. Now zebra mussels are covering everything.

Everyone remembers a trip to Mel Fisher's Treasure Museum, and many a kid is inspired to study history, learn how to dive, and make their lives richer. I will never forget meeting Mel and having the thrill of his gold chain wrapped around my neck, or Art McKee opening his closed museum and giving me a private tour. I've met Duncan Mathewson at least a couple of times and think he did a great job on the Atocha.

I don't think that wrecks should be "off limits", as a tour through these pages would confirm, nor the recent "pirating" of wrecks by other countries that would never show up work on the wrecks with archeologists and so leave them to disappear into the sands of times and the guts of teredo worms. I do think that there's room for private salvors as are working the Spanish wrecks. It is a difficult, dangerous, and financially risky job and there should be a process to make it happen in a lot of cases. England seems to have the best system I can see, in that the finders, even lowly (ahem) metal detectorists get remunerated for what they find.

In my humble opinion, we have the best salvors here. They are adventurous, inventive, adaptable, and persistent. They have to be able to make a return on their expenses so they can keep working so naturally they focus on wrecks that may pay off. Whoever works these wrecks shares their stories, finds, and information gained with us all. That's great. Without all the old timers like Frogfoot Weller, Kip Wagner, Art McKee, or Mel Fisher, how many of these would have even seen the light of day? These guys have inspired all of us and many of you guys still do.

 

[Honest Samuel]

I saw the story on TV and the pictures and I am very upset for the people who lose their lives. I hope that they all in Heaven. God bless.

 

[Honest Samuel]

Who actually gives a flying F____

I believe that all of us except you care for the people who lost their lives. Shame on you.