TRUE OR FALSE?

[Frankn]

I have been researching stories in the states next to mine, MD., to cut down on travel in my cache hunting. In researching PA. cache sites, I have noticed that a lot of them are in state parks or forrests. I have also noticed that a lot of them appear to easy to find. I have been wondering if some have been fabricated to lure tourist to the locations. Here are some examples. Dents Run with 25 gold bars on secret mission. Gold vanishes in Dents Run SF. There are maps floating around that show you the location, the trail is blazed with yellow blazes on trees, orange bands are on trees where a gold bar was found, etc, etc.
The Doan Gang Treasure is in Ralph Stover SP near an old cabin!
Dr. Bowmans buried treasure is in Washington Crossing State Historical Park.
The big question is "Which came first, the park or the story?"

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[Frankn]

:downtown:

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Sign language?

 

[bigscoop]

Tom lost a quarter while hiking.
Tom lost a gold coin while down by the river.
Tom lost a whole pocket full of gold coins near the big river bend.
Down by the big river bend a man named Tom lost an entire saddle bag full of gold.
I heard a guy found one of Tom's lost gold coins down by the river but he couldn't remember exactly where. A few days later he died from exposure to the elements.
Somewhere down by the river, at a place they use to call Tom's Run, possibly near the big river bend, an outlaw named Tom burried several lost saddle bags full of gold before he died from a gunshot wound.

I think this is where a lot of lost treasure stories come from. Turning a small event into something much greater is just human nature. A hundred years later the simple event becomes distorded and twisted with mountains of exciting and fascinating fiction. If it's not well documented it probably didn't happen anywhere close to how the story is told today, if it even happened at all?

 

[Frankn]

The point I was trying to get across is that these stories appear to be "PLANTED" to attract usage of state land. In other words get the tourest dollar into PA.

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[jeff of pa]

False Most of these Stories were around Years before They
were purchased / Confiscated by the State.

If anything they were Purchased to Control what is under the Ground

http://www.dcnr.state.pa.us/stateparks/history/1stpark.aspx


You can Prove what I Say

Look at the date of the Dent's run Story,
it's been in the Papers for well Over
100 Years.

Look at the History of Land Purchases.

Trace some of these stories in Newspapers.
The Stories hit the Papers Before the Parks
came into Being.

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Frankn, save your time and energy. Big scoop is right. All those dime-book-treasure stories are bogus embellished balogna. The human mind wants SO hard to believe them though, so "as not to be left out". I mean, c'mon, seriously now, here's how they all sound:

The dying miner drags himself into the wild west saloon, the lone survivor of an indian attack. As curious on-looker inside the saloon look on, he spins the story of fabulous wealth, in a hidden mine, and shows them all a treasure map. However, he dies of his wounds before being able to reclaim his fortune.

If you really wanna get all wound up chasing treasure stories, just pick up any treasure mag from the 1960s to the mid 1970s, and they were full of such lore. All it takes is a single "he said she said they said that he said", and PRESTO, it's iron-clad!

 

[maipenrai]

Bigscoop, you are right on. Not only do the stories grow, but strangely, there are a lot of "our own", that want to believe and from there it spreads like wild fire.

I'm sure when someone post on here, about the 20 best treasure stories, they mean well, but probably most of the stories were just as Bigscoop said, starting from nothing, but now we have respected treasure hunters repeating them. To say that there is "said" to be saddle bags full of gold on a river bend, is not worth very much. Of course we are not going to give our own secrets away, but there is not much use in repeating the same old stories that have not much fact in them.

I seen recently one post here, that said they found a tree with "money" carved into it. Does anyone actually believe that a cache would be marked like that? While on the subject: Since everyone here seems to know the "signs" for buried treasure, I'm quite sure that while out hunting, and taking a break, it would be fun, just to get the hammer and chisel and make our own treasure signs. It would be hilarious to think of other hunters coming along and jumping up and down when they found your sign, and sure they were on to the big one!

If you were hiding a treasure, would you really spend days carving on trees and chiseling signs on rocks? You would probably just hide it where you thought you would remember, of course you might forget, so that's where we come in, 100 years later.

 

[Frankn]

Tom, the books that I use are by Penfield,Dobie,Terry etc. All of whom I feel are reliable sources. I use them as a starter and work from there.

Jeff, I have no dough the stories in original form predate the parks. What I was getting at is that the stories are being bent and filled in to accomadate park locations. Take that Dents Run story. The route was not actually known because it was changed. There is no record of the officer that lead that detail. There was no paymaster in the group which violated military rules. The Pinkerton Files on the event are missing. The story is full of holes. I think the Sargent spent all those years looking and finally realized the story has problems. That's why he moved on to greener pasturers. I spent time on research and two weekends up there with a detector. I'll check out a good story, but I also know when to call it quits. Frank

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[Oroblanco]

Jeff wrote

False Most of these Stories were around Years before They
were purchased / Confiscated by the State.

If anything they were Purchased to Control what is under the Ground

Absolutely correct! This has happened all over the country too. While researching some old gold mines in VA many years back when my wife and I were first getting 'into' this avocation, we were shocked to learn how many gold mine sites had been grabbed up by none other than the Commonwealth of VA. It is not to attract tourists at all, it is to get control of the wealth still buried in the ground.

It is what is behind the massive "Antiquities Act" grab too, an attempt to claim ownership of everything found buried in the ground. This ought to tell you something - that the wealth is NOT a figment of some writer's imagination!

Do your own research and you will learn that Jeff has this exactly right; the amount of treasure that has been lost, buried or sunk in the seas is so great that it staggers the imagination, and that without any exaggeration whatsoever. It is also true that treasure writers have sometimes magnified the values of the lost treasures, often enough by innocent means; for example a stage is robbed of $500 in gold in 1800; someone reading the account in 1940 calculates that gold would be worth 50% more in his day and writes an account but the amount now has grown to $750; another writer reads this and converts the value to his time and so on until the stage loot has become a fantastic fortune when in truth it really was only $500, which would still be worth many times that amount today if found and recovered.

There is a reason for our Treasure Trove law, that gives the government HALF of the value of treasures found, and this fact alone should tell the skeptics that there really are lost treasures worth fortunes. Just Google Mel Fisher and Atocha to see what might be found, admittedly this is a shipwreck but great fortunes are found on dry land now and then too! We just don't always hear about them!

Don't take our word for it, do your own research and you will see. Good luck and good hunting amigo, I hope you find the treasures that you seek.
Oroblanco

 

[Tom_in_CA]

Frankn, you say that: "the books that I use are by Penfield,Dobie,Terry etc. All of whom I feel are reliable sources"

But then you turn around and say: "The story is full of holes" & that you " ..... finally realized the story has problems ... " etc...

 

[Daedalus]

Yes the Governments use these stories to bring in people. They also jump on any place that might have some form of money lost or hidden so they can set up regs so they can get half or more if found.

They bring in the people who search for this and the more the better, brings in money to the local economy and who knows someone may find what was lost and they get half of that.

It is a shame they are doing this , as it promotes people not disclosing the find. Were in the UK they may take the Items but they pay you the full going price for the find. Unlike here were they take half off the top.

It just shows you how hungry for money the States are . And to what lengths they will go, to get at the money !

 

[jeff of pa]

.

Jeff, I have no dough the stories in original form predate the parks. What I was getting at is that the stories are being bent and filled in to accomadate park locations. Take that Dents Run story. The route was not actually known because it was changed. There is no record of the officer that lead that detail. There was no paymaster in the group which violated military rules. The Pinkerton Files on the event are missing. The story is full of holes. I think the Sargent spent all those years looking and finally realized the story has problems. That's why he moved on to greener pasturers. I spent time on research and two weekends up there with a detector. I'll check out a good story, but I also know when to call it quits. Frank

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I Suppose it is Possable The park service May change locations
to try & Prevent Treasure Hunting, & Especially Finding,
However it would seem to me counter Productive to their
Laws to Point Visitors to areas to Treasurehunt.
View the Scenery & Buy things while there yes.

Some above say all these stories are made up

I Disagree. Changed, Embellished, By simple time
and Repeating the Stories Yes, most likley.
But most are based on fact.

If somone Lost a Saddle Bag in the 1860's with 3 Gold Pieces in it,
& the story made it to the 1950's , somone may check the
average Value of 3 $20.00 Gold Pieces. Say $1500.00.
then say $1500.00 in gold in a saddle Bag was lost.
in the Civil war.
Now the next Person may Check how much 1500
$1.00 Gold pieces were Worth in 1960's.
Rough Guess $15,000.00 Then tell The Story
$15,000 dollars Was being delivered for payment to the Troops.

Thats Why Research is Important.

$3 Gold Pieces in a hole Is a Treasure
worth finding to me.

Are all the treasures there yet ? I Don't think so.

Once while hunting a Local Park
a Man from the area walked over to me
to talk for awhile. In our Conversation he said
He has a Hunting Camp up in Potter county
& Thinks that would be a Great place to Hunt.
One year a buddy of his found civil war era
Relics just laying in the woods while deer hunting.

This was from somone who Claimed to Know nothing
about Detecting.

on Den't Run, Somone needs to Check Pinkerton Records,
If they havn't been Stolen, Distroyed, or Doctored

 

[bigscoop]

Not suggesting that "all" lost treasure stories are fiction, just saying that many, many of them are either fiction or that they have been built up to something far greater then the original event. And this goes way back, even to the early explorers who relied on Royal funding to continue their quest for discovery and wealth. Rumors, wishful thinking, twisting of the real facts and information, many explorers were granted their needed funding as a result of these baseless stories and their added embellishments. Sure, a few succeeded in discovering untold wealth, but only a few, the rest simply wasted a lot of Royal money pursuing things that never existed in the first place.

To closely quote Tommy Thompson, "If we're going to pursue lost treasures then let us pursue those we know actually existed."

A lot of revenue is still being made off of questionable lost treasure tales and even the questionable personalities that are part of these tales. Gasparilla comes quickly to mind, so "yes", their is money in keeping a lot of these lost treasure stories alive.

 

[Frankn]

Another lost post! For some reason the about 10 line post vanished!
This is my MH at the top of Bell Draft Road "Dents Run Legend".

 

[bigscoop]

"I have been wondering if some have been fabricated to lure tourist to the locations......."

I thought the Gasparilla example was inline with what you were asking........a legend created before the actual festival but put to good use as a modern day, "tourist attraction".

 

[desert dog]

hum

 

[Frankn]

The problem with this is the facts and location get shifted. That's the reason I try to find several versions of the same tale. Usually you can take similar items in the stories and consider them facts. Variations are taken with a grain of salt. I have seen several versions of the Dents Run story plus picked some pointers from the old locals. I have worked with other treasure hunters on this story and there are to many holes. One of the other hunters checked Pinkerton files and came up empty. Another checked military records for the officer. We had only his last name to go on but that name only existed out west in the military files.

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[jeff of pa]

The problem with this is the facts and location get shifted. That's the

Absolutely !

I noticed this reading History
Books for My Surrounding Area.

I Have found this Same "Sappy" story
in 3 Different Counties, & Several different Villages

All Putting it in their History
Books Claming they lived there.

Apparently These people Owned
Houses in Every Village in every
county in East Central PA

The Names Never Change,
but it makes me wonder
Wht else is Being Lied about ?

& Makes me Doubt it's anything more
then some woman's Bedtime story
to her Children

 

[deepskyal]

Check the Pa. forum and you'll see someone that "claims" they located the Dent's Run treasure but cannot get permission from the state.
I put quite a bit of time into one of the legends in Pa and once I compared and sifted through the facts, came to the conclusion it was one of those that originated from another factual story but got moved and embelleshed to the point it was just a bogus legend.

I don't think it's a lure to get people to visit Pa. It's people trying to boast about something that they insist have knowledge of and get their moment of fame. Maybe make a couple bucks from the gullible wanna get rich quick folks by writing a book.

Al