two bone items up for discussion

[larson1951]

we found these about twenty years ago after a heavy rain when the site was planted with some alfalfa that did not grow
the paint stick with a face on it..............
......the symbols to the left of the face represent staffs of eagle feathers...... (the long poles with the feathers on them)
i wanna point out an observation i have made over the last 27 years..........
.......i have seen about at least a half dozen or a bit more faces and none of them ever has a nose.....only a mouth and a pair of eyes......
........can't figure out why?

now the other piece shows a dandy with his hands stretched above his head with a drawn bow and arrow pointed at him

anyone have any thoughts or opinions on these?

 

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[joshuaream]

It may not be an exciting reason, but there is a paradigm for how we draw simple line faces. You learned it in kindergarten, you taught it to your kids, and it just seems normal. When you see examples that don't match that clear pattern, they stand out like a sorethumb.

If you have a youngster in the family that sends a lot of text messages, show them the face and it might seem more normal since the smileys they use don't have noses either....

Another neat example is nodding yes and shaking the head for no. In a couple of countries the up and down nod means no, wobbling the head sideways means yes, and shaking side to side means I don't understand.

 

[GatorBoy]

Wow.. I've never found anything with depictions of people..just patterns and shapes.
Something that resembles the sun..now and then.

 

[larson1951]

thanks
you know you are right about the smiley thing......maybe the mandans are the people with the original idea

and thanks gator.....i got a couple more pieces with faces......
....should i post them?

i kinda think they are something a bit different and also interesting in a way

 

[GatorBoy]

You should definitely post them!
They are definitely a rarity.

 

[larson1951]

You should definitely post them!
They are definitely a rarity.

i will try to find them for you

 

[pippinwhitepaws]

the upper piece may be a sun dance artifact.

 

[old digger]

The top piece looks like a quill flattener or a handle to something. Amazing finds, thanks for sharing.

 

[surf]

i have seen about at least a half dozen or a bit more faces and none of them ever has a nose.....only a mouth and a pair of eyes....

Nawah Steve,

Engraving bone is not as easy as one might think, I know from experience. I wonder if the devastating smallpox epidemics the Mandan suffered, might have some bearing here. I've not read R.G. Robertson's Rotting Face, but there may be some insight there.

Rotting Face: Books​

The following drawing appears to have been done prior to the epidemic:

Biographical Dictionary of the Mandan, Hidatsa, and Arikara​

i got a couple more pieces with faces......
....should i post them?

Yes, please!

Tribal History of the Mandans​

 

[larson1951]

dosha maguada surf.....and hihanna waste' (pronounced wash-tay)

i think you may be right.....thanks for the images and info

 

[larson1951]

a few more

thoughts?

i have my opinion and description and can post them if you wish

 

[rock]

I am reading this one but cant offer any in site to the questions asked. But I am here. Very interesting

 

[GatorBoy]

Very ghostly images.
Something about seeing these really humanises these people and their.."artifacts" seem more like their belongings.

 

[Tnmountains]

The detail they got was amazing. You recognize what they are and that was the purpose is my guess. It was probably Art at its finest considering stone age technology. Many petroplyphs look the same. Nice pieces.

 

[larson1951]

ok tnet friends
gonna give you our take on these two pcs...
(first one tip it sideways to the the left....so it lays sideways...
i gotta believe in the explanation which has been told to me by many)
.......what we see here is a man lying on a bed (in an earth lodge)....he is dying of small pox and crying for help

second image is a coup stick.....which i believe was used for over 100 years or way more than that
it was held by the small end and the touching was done by the wide end
the reason being that the herring bone engraving on the front and back were most likely made at the same time.....but the front side shows so much thumb wear that the herringbone design is almost gone
(now this "herringbone" description is my own lingo since it is my way of describing the 'chevron' type design)
my wife is the person that showed me how a coup stick works.........there is nothing weird about using it
.....is perfectly ok for us to use it now in the present day to show "you are my friend"
the stick shows a turtle (friend) and at the bottom is a baby wrapped in a cradle board with arms extended and a feather in it's little headband

any opinions?

 

[surf]

​

Hello Steve,

Thanks for these additional photos. I say retroactive "Banner" on all of them! Heck, yeah, I wanna hear your thoughts on these... What use would you ascribe to the artifact above?

Do any of your thoughts include "deavel" or manitou?

"William Clark's drawing of the manitou spirit, a Missouri River petroglyph, June 5,
1804. Courtesy American Philosophical Society." Lewis & Clark Expedition

PS: I see you done already supplied your thoughts, while I was doing the laundry and trying to write this post, talk about a hopeless hunt & pecker...

 

[larson1951]

dosha surf

i like what you posted
i know of another one and will try to get an image of it and post it

 

[larson1951]

this is the first of the face pieces that was found 27 years ago
found by a friends wife on her first ten minutes of ever being on the site.......she thought we were playing a joke on her
after that she found an atlatl weight..........beginners luck

 

[GatorBoy]

That is so cool Larson.
Hardly ever considered the possibility of finding somthing like that around these parts.

 

[NC field hunter]

The face with no nose, is a face only. No body. Could it represent a ceremonial mask?? It lacks native features as well. Long hair, head dress or similar native styles. It could represent white man. For what reason, I do not know. He seems rather expressionless or empty. No emotion, no body, representation of a spirit or soul?? On the other piece, I see the bow drawn and the Dandy with his hands up. He's under arrest! Just kidding! It would really add insight if we could see the man behind the bow. Without that, the story has nothing to build on. I do think its a story or fable scribed in these. Nice stuff Larson! It kills me to have a puzzle with missing pieces. I guess you can rewrite the parts lost in time. I think it could be fun. Even more fun, let your trahokia (grand daughter) put her swing on it. What is grand child again? I may have really gotten that one wrong. I like the language you use.